Antony General Agrippa

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Mammothtooth, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Hello.
    After reading about the 23 legions of Antony and the coinage related to them, I would like to see coins of General Marcus V. Agrippa. After all it appears he was the victor at Actium. I would love to buy a representative Antony Denarius as well, not caring what Legion. Ideas?
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    [​IMG]
    Augustus, with Agrippa (27. B.C. 14 A.D.)
    GAUL, Nemausus
    Æ As
    O: Heads of Agrippa left, wearing rostral crown and laurel wreath, and Augustus right, wearing oak wreath, back to back. IMP above, DIVI F below.
    R: Crocodile right chained to palm branch with long vertical fronds; above, wreath with long ties, palms below; COL NEM flanking vertical palm.
    Nemausus mint, 9-3 B.C
    10.26g
    27mm
    RPC I 524; RIC 1 158

    [​IMG]
    Agrippa (Died 12 B.C.)
    Æ As
    O: M. AGRIPPA. F. COS. III, head left, wearing rostral crown.
    R: Neptune standing left, holding small dolphin and trident; S-C across field.
    Rome mint. Struck under Gaius (Caligula)
    27mm
    9.72g
    RIC I 58 (Gaius); MIR 3, 24-6; BMCRE 161 (Tiberius); Cohen 3
     
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  4. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    a well known and common coin:

    Agrippa neptune.jpg
     
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  5. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Thanks, what are a couple of the better sites to purchase
     
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  6. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Coins of Agrippa are common, but most are posthumous.

    The most common by far is the As minted by his grandson Caligula, decades after his death. These are inexpensive (>$50) when well worn and corroded
    Agrippa ae as neptune.jpg

    But once you get nicer, expect the price to go exponential - this was my upgrade for about $120, without the weak lettering and corrosion on the reverse, I would expect $500+, and without the wear on the portrait, likely $1,000+ Marcus Agrippa as Neptune by caligula.jpg

    After this, Agrippa features on the popular provincial "dupondius" from Nemausus in Gaul, founded as a colony for retired veterans of Actium and the war in general. These are relatively affordable ($50-150 generally) although they include both lifetime and posthumous issues
    Augustus Agrippa Nemausus gaul croc.jpg
    Agrippa is on the left - my understanding is that if Augustus is wearing a laurel, it is most likely a later (post 12 BC) issue.

    I'll hold off on commentary on Antony's legionary denarii as I only own two extremely worn examples (FYI, you can get worn-out legions denarii for as little as $20 - they were extremely common and circulated until the time of Marcus Aurelius due to their low silver content). IMO, the best Antony to get is the common cistophoric tetradrachm, which is usually the same price or cheaper than a comparable denarius
    Marcus Antonius Octavia tetradrachm.jpg
     
  7. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Thank you very much
     
  8. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    Here's another example of the common Agrippa as with Neptune on the reverse, issued by Caligula. I think it's a perfectly nice coin with a clear legend and a portrait that stands out despite the wear (I like the "cameo" effect). Without getting too specific, I paid about $150 for it to a dealer on VCoins, within the past few months:

    Agrippa (d. 12 BCE), AE As, Memorial issue struck by Caligula, 37-41 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Head of Agrippa left, wearing rostral crown, M AGRIPPA L - F COS III / Rev. Neptune standing left, holding trident in left hand; dolphin resting left on his right forearm; S - C on either side of Neptune. RIC I Caligula [Gaius] 58, Sear RCV I 1812, Cohen Agrippa 3. 31 mm., 11.0 g.

    Agrippa-Neptune As.jpg

    And here's my example of the famous Augustus-Agrippa COL NEM dupondius, with a similar cameo effect:

    Augustus AE (Brass) Dupondius, 9-3 BCE, Colonia Augusta Nemausus [Nîmes] (Galla Narbonensis province) Mint. Obv. Heads of Agrippa left and Augustus right, back to back, with Agrippa wearing combined laurel wreath and rostral crown, and Augustus wearing oak wreath, IMP above heads and DIVI F below [Imperator Divi Filius] / Rev. Crocodile right standing on two palm branches, chained to palm-shoot standing behind it, with tip of shoot leaning to right; wreath above and to left of palm-shoot, with long ties extending behind shoot to right, COL - NEM to left and right of palm-shoot. “Type III” of Augustus & Agrippa/Crocodile coin (see https://multicollec.net/1-mo-h/1h04). RIC I 158 (p. 52), RPC I 524 (see https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=1&number=524), Sear Greek Imperial Coins 157 (D. Sear, Greek Imperial Coins and their Values (1982)], Sear RCV I 1730 (ill.). [See Sear RCV I at p. 337: Commemorates conquest of Egypt in 30 BCE; influenced by Augustus’s settlement of veterans of Egyptian campaign in Nemausus after colony was founded in 27 BCE.] 28 mm., 12.09 g.

    Augustus-Agrippa Dupondius.jpg

    I can't help you with Mark Antony, I'm afraid -- the one legionary denarius I bought last year turned out to be a fake. Fortunately, the dealer accepted a return.
     
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Here are my only coins of Agrippa. He would had been an excellent Emperor, and was the person who made Augustus.

    upload_2021-1-15_12-15-29.png
    RI Augustus oak crown Agrippa rostral crown L AE Dupondius 26mm 12.6g Type III 9-3 BCE Nemausus chained Croc wreaths RIC I 158


    upload_2021-1-15_12-16-12.png
    RI Agrippa AE As 28mm 11g Neptune-S-C Left
     
  10. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    [​IMG]
    Augustus & Agrippa, AE Dupondius - Nemausus mint, after AD 10
    4th type
    IMP DIVI F PP, Laureate heads of Augustus looking right and Agrippa looking left, back to back
    COL NEM, Crocodile chained to palm tree
    13,52 gr
    Ref : RCV #1731, Cohen #8


    [​IMG]
    Agrippa, As - Posthumous issue of Caligula, in honour of his grandfather (died 12 BC)
    Rome mint, ca AD 37/41
    M AGRIPPA L F COS III, head of Agrippa left with rostral crown
    Neptun standing left, holding trident and dolphin. Large S C in fields
    10.9 gr
    Ref : RCV #1812, Cohen #3

    Q
     
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  11. Limes

    Limes Supporter! Supporter

    I have a similar coin of Agrippa/Augustus, struck in Nemausus , as has been shown already. So i wont post it.
    But when it comes to your question about a denarius of MA, and a legionary type: it depends on what you think is a representative coin. As mentioned before, these coins are abundant, so you could browse current auctions, vcoins and ma-shops, to see what is offered. It's a matter of how much you want to spend, vis-a-vis quality. If your intention is to go for a coin with a clear reference to MA, you'd best look for a type with clear obverse legend, i.e. mentioning 'ANTAVG'. In that case, the revere might be of less importance. If you want to focus on the reverse, and a cool legionary type, there are scarces issues, and rare issues, whereas I do believe the special legion-types are rare (I don't know how these are called, but e.g. LEG PRI and COHORTIS SPECULATORUM. But be aware, these demand a high premium!
     
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  12. jamesicus

    jamesicus Supporter! Supporter

    Excellent coins posted by everyone. Here is a somewhat “scuzzy” example of the Restored (Restitution) issue of the above magnificent coin posted by “Q” , that is not often encountered.

    AGRIPPA AS, TITUS RESTORATION ISSUE, 80-81 AD
    [​IMG]
    BMCRE Volume II, Rome, Titus No. 281 (Pl.54.9.), 27mm, 10.00 gm.

    Obverse depiction: Agrippa, radiate head facing left wearing rostral crown
    Inscription: AGRIPPA L F COS III

    Reverse depiction: Neptune standing left holding small dolphin and trident
    Inscription: IMP T VESP AVG REST - S C (left and right)

    Sir James (Title awarded by @Multatuli):)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  13. Claudius_Gothicus

    Claudius_Gothicus Well-Known Member

    Even though it's not the time period I collect, I did buy this as of Agrippa in my earliest days as a collector, because I wanted a portrait of such an important figure. Sure, it's not that great, but since my focus is elsewhere, it'll do.
    S C (Roma).jpg
    Agrippa (posthumous), As, Rome mint.
    Obverse: M AGRIPPA L F COS III, head left, wearing rostral crown
    Reverse: S C, Neptune standing left, holding dolphin and trident
    RIC 58
     
  14. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Thank you so much. That really helps me
     
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  15. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Very Nice, I hope to find one like it.
     
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  16. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Sharing some comments about the Agrippa - Neptun As that I find very interesting:

    Historically, why would Caligula want M. Agrippa on an obverse of a coin that was struck in bucket full’s according to the percentage extant/found in his short almost 4-year reign? Why would Tiberius want to have Agrippa on these coins for the years 14-37 AD, which with the percentage of coins extant for the Rome issue alone makes more sense.
    Sydenham has already urged in 1917 that Caligula's reign was too short for so vast an issue, and after the publication of Sutherlands book, Carl Kuthmann argued in favor of attributing the whole issue to the reign of Tiberius, other Aes issues being, in his view, ample in number and size to fill Caligula's reign. (Schweizer Muenzblatter 4 1954 73-7). He suggested that the coins of Caesaraugusta, which Sutherland gave as his example of coins reproducing the design of Agrippa Aes, were probably struck not under Caligula, as Sutherland held, but under Tiberius in AD 37. He also suggested that the reign of Tiberius is the most likely historical context for this advertising of Agrippa, since there was a strong personal tie, through Vipsania, between Agrippa and Tiberius (CE Stevens has quoted Velleius 2. 127). But by the fact that Caligula was Agrippa's grandson, Mattingly has said in conversations, " that he still holds these historic considerations as weightier than the numismatic arguments against inception under Tiberius.” He believes that the bulk, at least, of this issue was produced between 22- 31 AD. S. Jameson, however, has argued, on the evidence of the die axis and of hybrids that occur, that one of these 3 groups into which she believes the issue can be divided began to be produced in about 22-23 AD.
     
  17. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Denarius struck at a moving military mint during Agrippa's lifetime, one of the only issues struck under the authority of Agrippa and one of the few bearing his name. It was probably minted in Gaul under Agrippa, who was named governor of Transalpine Gaul in 39 / 38 BC and names Agrippa as “consul designate”, in anticipation of his consulship the following year. It was in the latter year, that Agrippa but down an uprising of the Aquitanians.

    Military mint moving with Agrippa in Gaul or with Octavian in Italy, 38 BC
    17 x 19 mm, 3.485 g
    Crawford 534/3; Sear CRI 307;

    Ob.: IMP CAESAR - DIVI IVLI F, Bare head of Octavian r., with slight beard, border of dots
    Rev.: M AGRIPPA COS / DESIG in two lines across field, border of dots

    upload_2021-1-15_18-34-47.png upload_2021-1-15_18-35-2.png
     
  18. Numisnewbiest

    Numisnewbiest Well-Known Member

    I didn't want to start a new thread for a Marcus Agrippa coin, so I'm rehashing this one, because I bought the very common Agrippa coin today (and I'm sure I grossly overpaid, but c'est la vie). It's not in fantastic shape, but I bought it for the portrait because I think it's one of the better, more lifelike, and less cartoonish Agrippa portraits I've seen on coins.

    agrippa.jpg
     
  19. Taikonaut

    Taikonaut Member

    "I'm Agrippa"
    "And I know one or two holds myself. So you wanna watch it, mate"
    "He's the Captain. His name is Agrippa"
    "Why couldn't he say so?"
    unnamed-2.jpg
    From "Carry On Cleo":happy:


    s-l500.jpg

    s-l500-2.jpg


    I acquire a bronze coin the seller could not identify who it is but the legend clearly says "M Agrippa". The portrait differs from other Agrippa coins with deep recessed cheek and more of a snarl expression. 30mm but it weighs 15.53 grams heavier than usual.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  20. Taikonaut

    Taikonaut Member

    I have a feeling my Agrippa coin is a very good fake.
     
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  21. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    The portrait is all wrong!
    Agrippa 2.jpg
     
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