Antoninianii Lot - Has CNG gone insane?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Finn235, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    After a nice long mix up at the post office, my lot winnings from CNG finally arrived. More goodies to come, but I had to dig into this lot first. They mentioned two scarce rulers, and left the rest as "a good mix".

    No kidding! I probably paid less a third of what this lot is worth!

    (To build the suspense, I'll post them here without ID and let you look them over...)

    20190821_135822.jpg 20190821_151346.jpg

    Post your favorite mixed lot / unattributed winnings!
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    That's a nice looking set of coins :)
  4. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Basileus Megalos

  5. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    Coin pricing can be fairly subjective, but ultimately, coins are only worth what someone will pay for them.
    kaparthy likes this.
  6. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Looks like a great lot for sure...

    This was a really fun lot I picked up last year....

  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    These are not random coins but lower grade special items that appeal to people (like me) that would rather have an interesting coin with problems than a boring mint state gem. For example the Divo Caro is the type with Parthico. The Salonina is a reverse we don't see every day. There is a Macrianus, a Quietus, a Magnia Urbica and a Marius (which two are not rare to CNG?). I don't know what you paid but rather few of these are good enough for the typical CNG patron so I would not expect the lot to sell for the usual CNG advance over their estimates. The lot would appeal to bottom feeders like me. I hope you did not pay to much.
  8. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Supporter


    Wow, that is a great lot! Congrats.
  9. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    Nice group of coins. At $240 (including buyers fee), they really did their consignor a disservice not listing and photographing all the coins. Individually that lot's worth $1000 give or take.

  10. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    I agree, most wouldn't make the cut for an individual listing, but I've sold a lesser Marius of that type for about $180. Only about three of these are upgrades for me; the rest I bought to flip. Average was $16 per coin after BP - only the Gallienus, Salonina, Divo Caro, and Diocletian are likely to miss that mark.

    @Barry Murphy, I think $1000 is way too high for the lot, but I agree - I feel sorry for the consignor on this one. CNG apparently has a policy of photographing lots by dumping a random handful of coins out and snapping the photo without even arranging them. Had they taken a carefully arranged photo of the coins like I did, bidding probably would have hit $500-600 rather than tapering off at $200.

    This isn't the first time, either. While some CNG lots do of course go far over their "ebay value", their policy of never photographing multiple coin lots properly does them much more harm than good.
    Paul M., Marsyas Mike and Orfew like this.
  11. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    You’re right. I rechecked my numbers and had 17 coins listed, I added the Macrianus and Quietus twice. I get to $800 easily.

    Plus the consignor probably had the privilege of paying the $50 minimum fee.
    Paul M., Aleph and Curtisimo like this.
  12. kaparthy

    kaparthy Supporter! Supporter

    I think that they know what they are doing. Everyone makes mistakes, but CNG is not a person. They are an organization. Nothing gets over-looked or gets by.
    See above:
  13. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    That's a very nice lot for an enviable price! Well done!
  14. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    This makes me think of the situation with the AK collection bulk lots. There were lots in that grouping that included coins worth over $500 which should have been listed singly. At the time I assumed that this was a case of the consignor insisting that they be sold the way they were because no sensible dealer would have done it that way. Here it seems that CNG wronged the consignor but we really do not know the circumstances and whose idea it was to do the wrong thing. I do know that I would be much less likely to consign my coins for sale by a house that does this but CNG class dealers have less than zero interest in my collection including the fifty or so coins I bought from them in the last 30+ years. I can only hope that these coins were the dregs of a better collection listed this way to move them quickly. I have no idea of the details and reasoning here so I have no idea whether we are correct blaming the stupidity on the auctioneer. A question: Should a auction house refuse to list coins for a consignor when that consignor wants it done in a way that will not produce a good result? I have sent some coins to Severus Alexander for inclusion in his AMCC auction. Should I instruct him which ones are grouped together, which ones belong in the bargain section and which ones I want started at a level making them unlikely to sell? I believe I should send him the group and let him do his job. Similarly, if I were sending a group of $1000 coins to a CNG class dealer, I would like to think I chose wisely when I sent them the coins rather than someone that needed babysitting to keep them from listing good coins in a stupid manner. I would love to know the backstory of this grouping and, more, the AK grouping strategy but these business matters are none of my business.
  16. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    Back in the 90’s, Stack’s was well known to bury good coins in unphotographed large lots in their Coin Gallery sales. I used to take the train to NY just to view the large lots. Bought a lot of good coins that way.

    Barry Murphy.
  17. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    That's a fantastic lot for the price, Finn. I do however agree with Doug that these weren't coins that can have been sold individually through CNG. Their minimum fee per lot is $40. That would have added up to $600 for 15 coins. Even if they had collectively brought $800, it would have left just $200 to the seller.

    At the same time, I also agree with you that CNG's photographing of the lot was what did the seller a disservice. If the lot had brought the ~$500 it should have, that would have been the best outcome for the seller.

    I've had a few nice wins with group lots in the past, the most recent being the discovery of a Nicephorus Basilacius follis in a $9.50/coin large group lot which I ended up selling in AMCC's first auction last year. My favorite and most memorable large lot purchase will probably remain this one from a few years ago, though. Not so much because I think I got a deal on it, but because of the unusual quality of the collection. Some of the coins in it are still amongst my favorites.

    Ryro, TIF, Justin Lee and 9 others like this.
  18. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    You guys are making me drool with all your great lots. I would love to have one of those.
  19. Aidan_()

    Aidan_() Numismatic Contributor

    Yup, couldn't of agreed more with what was said and the sweeeeeet score Finn! Good grab!
  20. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Great lot of ancients. Seeing these really make me drool.

    On my miniscule budget, I go with small, unattributed eBay lots - the quality isn't always very good, but I get to spend a lot of time with the attributions, which I really enjoy.

    Here is one I just got - paid $17.48 for the lot.

    Lot - Samaria, Trajan Dup, etc Aug 2019 (0).jpg

    Too nasty for a lot of collectors on CT, I realize, but I was quite happy. I was especially pleased because I finally got one of those Judean "mountain" coins(middle of photo):

    Elagabalus Æ 24
    (c. 218-222 A.D.)
    Samaria, Neapolis

    [AVT]KMAVP ANTWNINOC laureate draped & [cuirassed] bust right / ΦΛ NEAC[ΠO] ΛEWCCV[P·ΠAΛ·](var. ?), Mt. Gerizim with temple, hill right, etc., Π in exergue.
    Sofaer 94; Rosenberger 39 (reverse legend variation?)
    (10.20 grams / 24 mm)

    The Antioch SC is, I think, Augustus (I am having trouble finding one with a dot after the SC). The Trajan dupondius is better than most in my collection and has a fantastic portrait. The holed Constantine and the crusty radiate are junk, even by my standards.
  21. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Congrats! You got a super deal:)
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