This excellent question was posed in another thread of mine. I will try my best to answer it, though @AnYangMan is certainly invited to add on. Here is the coin that sparked the question: First, let’s talk about wear. On Chinese coins, wear from circulation will spread out any rims and character strokes, and they will be flat on the surface. As the strokes spread out, gaps will fill within the characters and they will start merging with the rim. Here is an example: Here is a large lot of Wu Zhus from F to EF/UNC condition. You can see how some of the coins have flatness on the tops of the characters and some spreading while others are fully sharp: This can be distinguished from a soft casting because the rims would be sharp, or the surfaces of the characters would have a somewhat rounded appearance rather than a flat one. This knife has weakly-cast characters which have rounded surfaces, but the rim is sharp, meaning this coin hardly circulated. Here is a group of Huo Quans. The third row has several example of weak casting. On the spade that sparked the question, there were no flat spots whatsoever on the devices, meaning it had seen no circulation wear. It would be described as EF in any auction catalogue, but in reality it is “practically uncirculated”. Now let’s talk about patina. It is true that was is considered acceptable/desirable in ancient Chinese coinage would possibly cause a Greek/Roman coin to become worthless. My theory about this is that Greek/Roman coins have far more intricate detail that is easily hidden by a layer of patina. Here is an example from @TIF ‘s collection. I personally prefer the “before” coin because of the patina, but I’d be willing to bet that almost all of you would prefer the “after” coin because you can see more detail: Chinese coins have large, simple inscriptions that would take a very thick layer of patina to obscure. That is why it is acceptable. Here is an example of a spade with no inscription, so what would be the point of cleaning it? While not the most even and attractive patina, it is still decent. As you touched on, the patina is a very good indication of authenticity. Usually this means the patina has to have a randomness and a crusty nature, both are aspects which could be seen as unattractive. I have come to be attracted to that kind of patina for authenticity reasons, but also because it is the “natural” way that the coins should look. Revoming this natural appearance will reduce the ease of authentication, which will reduce the market (I won’t buy them), and thus lower the value. (Sometimes, encrustation needs to be removed in order to see the characters. This is acceptable in my opinion, if it is done with care.) In addition, you can have some beautiful and vibrant colors fom the minerals in China’s soil that are rarely seen on Greek/Roman coins. The striking appearance of these coins is relatable to rainbow toning on modern coins, and they will trade for a premium. Here are examples of a couple Qi knives. The first one (mine) has been cleaned to reveal the characters. It made this coin slightly harder to authenticate given the unnatural appearance. It is hard to explain, but it feels like something is missing from the coin because the patina has been mostly removed. I bought it at a discount. Here is another one with completely-intact patina (not mine). Notice how it does not obscure the characters. I love the colors as this particular combination almost guarantees aurhenticity, plus it is easy on the eyes. The randomness and slight crustiness also allude to its authenticity, which attracts me. If the two knives were the same type, I would pay a significant premium for this one. As for what I meant about “great character”, I was referring to the clarity of the one-character inscription and how it was unusually complex for the type.
Very nice intro! Colourful & crusty = good. Tang: Su Zong (756-762), 50 cash, issued 759-62. This coin was produced during the An Lushan rebellion, a devastating conflict which may well hold the record for the largest death toll in human history. Conservative estimates suggest 13 million people died as a direct result, roughly 5% of the world's population at the time. (!!) I think the main inhibitor to collecting Chinese coins in the "western" world is that we're rarely taught about Chinese history. This is a shame! If you want to dip into it, I'd recommend the ongoing History of China podcast.
Thank you very much. I can't say I feel qualified to collect these items beyond my current level (the $1 each crowd). I still fail to understand the concern over wear when a piece has parts missing and breakage. That is OK, I am not even able to tell lightly cleaned from naturally protected but lightly corroded. Ignoring the fact that these two differ in the reverse rim, what distinguishes them in terms of condition/desirability?
I’m not sure I understand. The amount of wear a coin has becomes somewhat irrelevant when it becomes broken. The top coin has less wear and sharper characters. The patina is natural for being in talcy soil. While I am not personally a fan of white, that should not count anything against the coin. As for the reverses, I basically ignore them if they don’t have some kind of markings. Many cash from 900-1300 have very poorly-defined reverses, and I do not fault these coins because they usually do not have anything important there.
That is why I was confused seeing the example that was used to illustrate wear. This is all very different for those with only Western ancient experience.
That example was just to show the spreading I was talking about. I did not have any other good closeup shots. It is broken because someone tried to punch out the center (to make additional denominations) and failed. It has value for that reason. Generally otherwise broken coins are worth a significant discount.
Hi @Severus Alexander . This coin is not during the An Lushan rebellion. Those attributed to the rebellion was issued by Shi Siming bearing 得壹元寶 and 順天元寶。
desirability on Chinese coins stems from the color of the patina, how clear the characters are still visible and most importantly the rarity. Encrusted coins are desirable unlike silver western coins as they indicate evidence of antiquity and historical use among the masses thus absorbing the energies of the time
Thanks, @Loong Siew. I didn't mean it was issued by the rebellion, only during – it started in 755 and lasted until 763. Shi Siming was An Lushan's deputy and successor, and I would very much like a coin of his!
I think there is likely some confusion as to this thread. Let me see if I can make a few comments. Tom said: I suppose a better word could have been used other than 'spreading'. Basically, with a more worn coin the characters will appear thicker or larger. Its because the high points have worn down. Its kind of hard to explain without really good images, but I will have to do with what I have at the moment: I really despise grading coins, but the coin above is what I would call something right in the middle of wear, or maybe about Very Fine to Very Fine. The above is what I would call somewhere in the bottom third of grading, subjectively Fine or Very Good. You can notice that the characters appear a bit thicker. That is what might be called 'spreading'. Regarding rims, this can be confusing. Some coins are supposed to have rims, others not. But often it can be both. With the method of casting of Chinese coins, one can have both: The example above has clear rims, both obverse and reverse. But often it can be confusing, considering the next coin. The above coin is supposed to have both obverse and reverse rims. But clearly the reverse does not have rims. Did they wear down? No. This coin was simply cast without them, or was mis-cast (many various errors of casting exist with Chinese coins). Is this a new variety? For some specialists, yes. For others no. Does it add value? Perhaps, but little, even for specialists. I agree with Tom here. The 'before' is infinitely better than the 'after'. If you look closely there isnt any new detail that can be seen. The loss is the patina. Blue patina is very rare with ancient coins, a premium in which some would pay ten times for. To me, the coin is irrevocably damaged. I would have paid much more for it, but who could know what the before and after was if it was just in an average sales catalog? Yes. There are many coins, more commonly with Wang Mang 'cake' and or 'biscuit' coins, which were cast either without any characters or perhaps poorly cast with no details. Why clean them? It would not reveal any (or few) details. I have an example of this but buried deeply, I have no time to look. Sadly this is true. Western ethnocentrities demand that nothing or little exists outside ourselves. But when one looks at least superficially it becomes clear that the Chinese cultures developed much of what the west far before, and in some cases thousands of years before (this includes coinage). Primarily patina and personal preference. Basically the same (and if you can still get these for $1, let me know, I will buy all you can find).
Great comments, Ken! (Lest TIF think my "like" means I agree about her coin, though: nope, I definitely think the post-cleaned version is better, in terms of surfaces and detail. I'd give a different answer for a Chinese coin, of course.)
