Another questionable CAC call

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by johnmilton, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I agree that the OP coin should have been in a Details holder. It is clearly graffitied (if such a word exists!). Here's another graffitied coin (one of mine) that deservedly wound up with a details grade even though the marks are not too readily apparent. In fact, I had to ask the dealer I bought it from to show them to me and he had to spend a minute to see them. The graffiti is between the crown and the letters UE.

    The TPGs are very inconsistent in their grading standards except that they are consistent generally in giving a pass to certain types, ages, and values of coins than others.

    IMO, CAC absolutely should not have beaned the 1795 half dollar. This undermines CAC's entire raison d'etre: That collectors can have confidence that a beaned coin meets the requirements for an A or B example of the TPG's grade. Of course, that definition can be a slippery slope if CAC accepts a sliding scale of TPG grades. Then CAC would stand for nothing.

    Takes us right back to the old mantra: "Buy the coin and not the holder."

    DSC_0007.jpg DSC_0008.jpg
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest

    to hide this ad.
  3. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter


    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    I was cruising through Heritage archives hovering over the large-sized images for all of the XF40s, and the OP coin popped up as one I would not pick. The X was immediately noticeable. Hard to fathom why CAC picked it as an "A or B" example. To each their own, I guess.
    Two Dogs, wxcoin and johnmilton like this.
  5. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Snap, Crackle, and Pop the CAC. Does not encourage me to purchase any TPG slab with it on it. It's all in the coin itself. Want to meet the most powerful grader in the world, look in the mirror!
    wxcoin, green18 and johnmilton like this.
  6. gmarguli

    gmarguli Slightly Evil™

    Actually, it speaks volumes about the state of collectors. There used to be a time collectors actually learned about the coins they were buying. Then the TPG came along and collectors no longer needed to learn things like grading, authentication, and detecting problems. Then some dealers looking for a way to make money created a problem (gradeflation) and a solution (CAC).

    4-6 experts? Hummm. Remember the "minimum 2 graders and a finalizer" wording they used to say. Where is that wording today?

    In what world is a 1795 Flowing Hair half similar to a 1916-S Walker? That's like comparing a minivan to a Ferrari.
    fiddlehead and wxcoin like this.
  7. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I sent a coin in with some damage and it came back damaged. It was an 1806 draped quarter. My damage was on the reverse and covered in patina. And this coin gets a straight grade? Yes and CAC shouldn't have ever passed it.
    Two Dogs, wxcoin and johnmilton like this.
  8. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    To be objective about third party grading, NGC did give this Chain Cent a straight grade of VF-30 (too high). My grade, all things considered, is Fine-15.

    I think the straight line that runs through Ms. Liberty's eye is a scratch. Some others have called it a planchet defect. The mark behind the hair on the lower left is a die break. The "Y" shaped mark on the right is a struck-through.

    1793 Chain Cent All.jpg

    They kicked back these two coins to me in body bags about 20 years ago.

    1794 Large cent All.jpg

    PCGS later graded this 1797 S-139 Cent after one of the services body bagged it when I submitted it. It is a condition census piece. I sold it raw at an EAC convention auction. It made the front cover of the catalog.

    1797 Cent All.jpg
    halfcent1793, NSP and wxcoin like this.
  9. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Did it sell at a discount?
  10. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    Regardless to what the TPGS say, that 1797 is a well struck beautiful coin!
    CircCam likes this.
  11. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I have never understood the desire of collectors of these pieces to accept obvious defects that would relegate any other coin to the realm of a "problem coin" as market acceptable. The coin should be graded XF Details Graffiti/Scratched.
    Dynoking, CircCam and NSP like this.
  12. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Regardless of what the TPG did with it, I landed on my feet. It sold for strong money at the EAC auctions, now it's been slabbed.
    wxcoin likes this.
  13. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    I recall it was $8-9000 but an R4 variety or something.
    longshot likes this.

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    I have stated prior and I will reiterate now, CAC or MAC are redundant companies beyond Grading that has already been realized. At what point do you require CAC to agree with or validate the Grade realized and given by NGC or PCGS. Then, add additional value to that same coin Grade in their system as if it miraculously improved the coin or Grade in some way. Although some people may want or seek out this worthless CAC or MAC sticker, you are wasting your time as a validation of a Grade has never improved or raised the value ever. Again, this is a worthless and redundant evaluation and sticker, in my opinion.
  15. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    A question: do you all think the coin would have been approved if the mark in question was obviously, say, another letter like an R?
    It might be a 1 in a 5000 chance, but two straight scratches that intersect and form an X could theoretically just be scratches. The legs are not quite the same length. I mean, if the graders are looking for wiggle room.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
  16. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Yes, the X is a problem just like the scratch in Liberty’s face. It shouldn’t have CAC’ed and not even straight graded in the first place.
    Two Dogs likes this.
  17. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

  18. okbustchaser

    okbustchaser I may be old but I still appreciate a pretty bust Supporter

    And you can say the same thing about grading companies such as NGC or PCGS. That paper label has never improved or raised the value of the coin inside that slab by a single cent.

    It has, however, supplied a level of insurance that adds value to the coin. So does that green bean. Either can add some comfort to a potential buyer.
    micbraun and ldhair like this.
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To the contrary, my statements are based on what I can see, and you and everybody else can see, with our own eyes - the coins and the labels put on them. And when the evidence is right in front of your own eyes, it kinda becomes hard to ignore it and pretend it isn't there.

    LOL ! With your own words you state there is a public record of all this but you think I don't have any knowledge of it ? So what, you think I don't read or something ? :rolleyes:

    Charley everything about CAC, from the very first discussions of it before it was ever formed is a matter of public record. Every coin website, every coin forum, every coin magazine - it was thoroughly discussed in all of them. And yes, I am more than well aware of all of it.

    What you're apparently not aware of is that everything I've said in this thread, I've been saying right here on this forum since 2007 when CAC was formed. And the evidence, the coins and slabs and stickers, confirms everything I've been saying all along - and am still saying.
    wxcoin likes this.
  20. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Help me everyone!

    I am trying not to hit like!

    Please stop me!
    wxcoin and RonSanderson like this.
  21. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    An intervention is required!
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page