Another one to report.

If you can show me exactly where he says "ONE OUNCE OF", I will. I just need one instance rather than the two you accused him of.

BTW, you have yet to tell me how you figure that is anything but a lie. You can purposely misread his description in order to call him dishonest, but your absolute misquote of his words is not dishonest?

 

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Sorry, but I do not remember "Genuine®" Diamonds, but then I was out of the country for 5 years so that might account for it. What on earth makes you think eBay (which only permits 18+ year-olds who have to be pre-approved) should in any way be better (i.e.stricter) than the public airwaves which are open to anyone?

 

Good question.

One reason is that I prefer people and businesses police themselves rather than our government getting involved.

Another reason is that FeeBay seems to want to increase buyer confidence and this would be one way to do it. This small requirement would probably make a lot more sense than some of their recent rule changes regarding TPG's.

 

We all know of a young man here that was buying when he was 14...I know that for a fact.

 

What a lot of people seem to be arguing about is the listing format itself, which is pretty shady.


But the larger picture is....if these bars get out in the wild.

Communist China has already:

1. Faked metal detectors, reversed engineered them so precisely, and with such accuracy, that they look just like the real thing. They have plagued eBay before.

2. Faked Gold/Silver Jewelry. They take silver or gold plated rings and mark them 14K, or 925. This makes it hard to buy jewelry at an auction anymore, since so much fake stuff gets passed. You literally have to carry a magnet and acid with you. Fake gold and silver did exist 15 years ago, but it was on a much smaller scale.

3. Faked coins. They have been faking lots of coins, faking ancient coins, faking NGC/ PCGS slabbed coins, etc.

4. Faked watches, such as Rolex. Some have been faked so well, that you cannot even tell until you take it apart.

5. Faked clothing, camera bags, gear etc.

My point is, Communist China has been faking so much stuff, that it's time to put a lid on it.

Counterfeiting in China has grown at an exponential rate. 10 years ago, you did not even have to worry about all this, it was almost unheard of.

Now, as far as those gold bars that are plated go, what if 10 of those turned up in an auction. Locked in a case where you could not touch it, pick it up, etc? That is going to cause problems.

I have a bad feeling this stuff is going to get much worse.

But it's up to people like me to make people aware. No one buys this stuff, it does not get made, it does not exist. The more people we tell not to buy this stuff, the less we will see it.

 

Buddy, I'm letting this go, it ain't worth it.

 

I fail to see how mincing words will improve anything. He uses the word "clad" unpteen times including both the title and on the bar. Here is his policy;

- And that is an EXACT QUOTE from his listing. And still you want more? If that were every seller's policy, nearly all transactions would be flawless - except those whose knee jerk reaction is to blame the seller. I am sorry, but I will bet he would have just as many problems even if he did reword his title. Some people just must have every problem as someone else's.

BTW, he also includes a complete section of definitions just in case there is something you do not understand.

 

I copied and pasted the title directly from the ad rlm.

It does say 1 troy ounce in it.



Snipped from the listing.

 

Dude, these are not fake anything in the ad you posted the link for when you started this thread.

These are listed exactly for what they are, clad art bars. The title states that, and clad is used numerous times throughout the listing itself.

If the seller did not state these are clad anywhere in their listing, yes I would be the first to jump on your bandwagon and report the listing.

Since they are advertised as they are, there's nothing to report.

 

There is nothing what-so-ever shady about his listing nor his bars. However, I do agree with you on the China counterfeiting as well as other countries, So why are you picking on Milford, CT, United States? Those listing I posted earlier were serious and real. Why not pick on them? And, if those "get out in the wild", there will be all kinds of problems. BTW, his listings only use the word reproduction once and replica once with none in the title and his policy is no returns. They are made to deceive and they are not marked in any way. If you go after them, you will at least have a reason. Sorry, it is not Chinese, but then we cannot have everything we desire. You want some more, I will give them to you

 

Saw this thread this morning and I'm shocked to see this is still going in circles.

The seller isn't really being dishonest here but he knows damn well what he is doing.

There's no reason to report him and if a buyer purchases the item and has remorse it really is his/her fault for buying it in the first place.

 

Sigh...

I don't have much of a problem with this particular listing except for the way he's chosen to list the title starting with the words "1 Troy Ounce SILVER BULLION". This is not "1 Troy Ounce SILVER BULLION" and no words that follow will change that.

I also have a problem with the item itself as I believe its sole purpose is to deceive. The script on the reverse is hard to read and has a pattern virtually identical to a phrase you'd expect to see on a bullion coin or bar.

"In Clad We Trust" looks a lot like "In God We Trust".

Don't think it's that hard to read? Go ahead and click on the photo that shows the reverse, and then zoom your browser out until the image is actual size. The bar is about 2" long. I have to zoom out to about 30% to see it actual size on my monitor.

Yes, his return policy is GREAT! But I imagine some of his buyers might never catch on to the fact that they were duped. Or might not catch on within 30 days. Somehow, I don't think this guy is the kind of guy that would even respond to your emails if you tried writing him 31 days after the close of the auction.

 

Okay, no one deserves to lose money, let's just say I'm not gonna feel that sorry for such people. I'll rub my fingers together and tell them that's the sound of the sad fiddle playing for their loss.

 

Only in a perfect world, which isn't gonna happen for a very very very long time, if it does actually ever get to the point where people, business and corporations would police themselves that is. I won't see such a thing in my life time, my grand children (when that day comes) likely won't either. The problem with humans is greed. Like the old saying goes, "Money is the root of all evil!", it can certainly turn good people rotten.

 

Here is the point I'm making.

Say a seller sells replica coins, without the "copy" stamp. Early in the eBay days I saw this a lot. Even though the picture had a "copy stamp", many coins that shipped out did not.

In fact, I know of a site where you can purchase all kinds of coins, straight from China, that bear no copy stamp.

Now, if a seller states in the ad, that these are replica, then the seller is being truthful in what he is selling.

However, once these items leave the sellers hands, its up to the next person to be truthful or not.

That's where it becomes a grey area.

Same thing with the clad bars. Seller is being truthful, stating the item is clad, but once it leaves the seller, it's honesty may disappear.

It's all about strength in numbers.

I knew of a site that, a few months ago, was selling fake NGC/PCGS coins. A $20 gold piece for 74.99. Made so well, that it looks 100% genuine to the untrained eye.

I spoke to both companies, and they said they would investigate it. The site no longer sells fake slabbed coins.

Did I solely stop them? I dunno, I made other people aware too.

Lot's of people advice on here is "let it be".

That does not work, this stuff is getting out of control.

We may not be able to stop it, but we can make others aware.

 

I had no problem reading "CLAD" and I still deny responsibility for other people's inability to read. Now if it does not say what it is or lies about it, that is one thing. But flipping words that might be misread does not make it for me.

You "I don't think this guy is the kind of guy that would even respond to your emails", but out of 4500 feedbacks, not a single one for slow or no response. That is down right fantastic compared to most I have seen.

 

Oh for expletive's sake.

It says in Clad We Trust on it and I imagine the feel, look and sound when dropped of a clad bar is different from an actual silver bar. If we're going to educate, let's educate people on spotting those differences.

I don't care for the listing myself but he isn't being dishonest in the listing. If the next person who sells it is dishonest then we'll have something to talk about, but this seller isn't doing anything wrong.

 

The best thing we can do is go on with our daily routine.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f_HsjpSVaI

 

Lets say you got ebay to ban sales... then what? Are you really that naive to think the problem would disappear? Come on.. they would simply be offered elsewhere. As long as there is a market for such things and no matter what you or anyone else does, they will be made and sold somewhere. What about all the counterfeits, knock-offs, etc already in private hands? Do you plan on tracking down each and every one ever sold? Please.. do yourself a favor and just LET IT GO.

Detecto, you learned of such things online, so how do you intend to make people aware when they are already sitting on a computer with access to the same information as you? So much is available today with the click of a mouse, so anyone wishing to save themselves could easily do so without your help. Remember the old saying about leading a horse to water....?

You cannot seriously believe that you - the almighty Detecto - had anything to do with it or that prior to your grand discovery, no one else knew of such things. Do you really think PCGS or NGC needs or is relying on you for this information? It's clear you fancy yourself as an important player, but come on. The fact is being a super hero is a thankless profession, the pay stinks, and you cannot save everyone every time, so maybe the day has come to hang up your cape.