Another Fake 1877 Indian Head Cent on ebay

Yeah, that's almost as bad as the police stopping drunk drivers so we can't join in and learn about evasive driving.

It IS a good idea to post a clear description, the seller's ID, and/or a link to their seller page when you start a thread like this; otherwise, if the auction is bogus and does get pulled, latecomers are left in the dark.

 

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I wonder why the auction was pulled........

I would have liked to have seen it.

 

I'm not sure why the ad was pulled, as I don't work for ebay. But I was one of the people reporting this as a fake. It was an extremely nice looking (from pics) Indian Head Cent, both obv and rev. Advertising as BU/Gem (which means business strike, about a 64-65 MS state, but was raw). Selling for BIN of 3,500.00 I believe. Selling as key date (which the 1877 is) and as an extremely sharp strike. Nothing particularly "odd" or offsetting for the coin (as in usual ways to tell this one is counterfeit) except:

Problem was, the 1877 Indian Head Cent Rev is noted for having weak N's in the ONE and the CENT, and no known authentic ones (except proof coins) have been seen with a sharp strike where the N's are just as strong and well formed as the other letters. This is the diagnostic for having a fake 1877 (a business strike without the weak N's).

Possibly, if examined in hand, this coin could have had other problems noted with it, but from what I've read, the 1877 IHC has numerous examples of counterfeit or altered dates available in the world.

 

The reply I got from the seller was: "...The 1877 was purchased as a proof lot 471 in the November Baltimore Stacks/Boweres sale"

- allcoinswanted

He also gave his name, PNG and ANA membership numbers.

Here is the coin he referenced: http://stacksbowers.com/auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=281023

This one has the same identifying features as the coin he listed on ebay. For example, the faint border around the wreath leaves and incuse circular swirl near the rim above the F in "OF".

I believe he picked up this altered, unevenly colored coin, cleaned it and offered it back up for more.

Yes, the coin has issues. However, it's NOT a counterfeit after all.

Sometimes it pays to do a little investigating before having people's items removed as counterfeits. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. "Innocent until proven guilty".

 

I'll be glad to give the benefit of the doubt, but look at this side by side comparison of the one that you referenced (above) which evidently was in a holder, and the one that he had for sale, which looks like it's not holdered:

Are these the same coin? Or did I miss something?

 

If you want to sell a counterfiet of this the seller would have easily listed it with low bin and sold the item quickly before it was identified. Just do listing of all completed coin items you'd be suprised to see how many fakes you can see..

 

He obviously cleaned it, but if you look at the dark spots remaining on the eBay picture, they match up with the original coin. Also that incuse cut or whatever to the upper left of the F in OF matches perfectly on both coins.

He was probably hoping that it would sell higher as a clean raw coin than it did as a slabbed problem coin.

 

Good research Kasia,

I do think the seller needed to provide more information on this. No where in his listing did he mention it being a proof. I did not report it myself. I just asked if it was a proof coin. There are too many counterfeits of this coin floating around on the market to leave a small detail out (such as being proof struck).

The coins in the pictures are the same coin. Look at some of the marks (specifically the one by "F" in OF) same on both coins.

 

Maybe that's all the seller really needed to do. Identify the proof as a proof coin, instead of listing as an uncirculated one. Thanks for the help.

 

Good research my man. It was wrong of him to clean/dip the coin and then list it as BU for $1000 more. That's very dishonest, but typical eB** crap.

 

Hey gang! Just for the sake of learning here is the reverse of a genuine 1877 cent. This is a pic I took this week. Notice the central weakness... If you see a 1877 cent and the reverse does not look like this... it's either a fake... or a proof.