Another 1861 Contemporary Counterfeit Trime

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Burton Strauss III, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter


    Note the typical pick up points - the lines of the star aren't exactly 72 degree corners. The crude reverse (especially the orbs and bars inside the C (look at 10-11 o'clock). The surrounding stars aren't sharp and the branch at the top is crude...
    NSP, johnmilton, markr and 6 others like this.
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  3. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Lovely. The creator of these dies wasn't quite as inebriated as the last one. :)
  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Another lovely example. The dead givaways are the lines in the shield and the varying line thickness in the star's edges.
    ZoidMeister and Stevearino like this.
  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

  6. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    I havent seen an 1861 before. Mine is 1860. Yours is very nice.
  7. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Dave, give the poor guy some credit.

    The mint's die makers have good light, reducing lathes, straight edges, clean smooth plaster, an annealing oven for making hubs and dies, etc. They have blank cutting presses, coining presses and lots of other professional tools.

    The counterfeiter is sitting in the back room of a squalid tenement, cutting by hand and the light of a tallow drip. It's amazing he still has his thumbs, let alone that the counterfeit coin looks a bit like the original. Then he throws the die into the fire and fishes it out to quench it in the, um, being delicate here, chamber pot.

    He has to make coin blanks by cutting them out of sheets of German Silver or low purity silver (maybe using some kind of a round die to punch them out).

    Finally, he has to fit the two dies into some kind of jig with a blank between them and hit it one solid blow with a sledge hammer.

    All to make a 3 cent coin out of 1 cent of raw materials. Which he sells to a distributor at 2c each so they can pass them as 3c.

    Wouldn't you drink? Heavily? Cheap rot-gut whisky???
    Dynoking and Mainebill like this.
  8. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Flynn and Zack list

    1851-TCS-1/A (obverse die 1, reverse A) German Silver

    1853-TCS-1/A Silvered Brass

    1859-TCS-1/A Silver (0.89g, so must be low fineness)

    1860-TCS-1/A German Silver

    1861-TCS-1/A Silver
    1861-TCS-2/B Silver (0.65g)
    1861-TCS-2a/C Silver (called 2a because it looks like the same obverse die as 2/B but cracked)
    1861-TCS-3/D Silver (0.68g)
    1861-TCS-4/E German Silver, 0.64g

    (the dies are unique per year if I'm understanding the book correctly, so the A die from 1851 is not the A die from 1859.
  9. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I'd drink the planchet cleaning solvent if it was all I had. :)
    Mainebill likes this.
  10. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    It's actually a passable counterfeit that most in the not know category would have contemporarily not given a second look. Fascinating given that it was a low value coin with not a lot of profit margin vs. a dime or half dime.
  11. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Check this one out. Never seen one quite like it, but it even looks like they attempted to carve the typical die clash on the reverse!
    NSP, ZoidMeister, markr and 1 other person like this.
  12. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Looks like they weren't even trying with the reverse
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  13. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Nice one @C-B-D the first would definitely fool the unsuspecting
  14. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    One interesting consideration on why to fake a 3c piece, they're so freakin' small that the detail issues probably are much more difficult to see in hand versus blown up image on the computer.
    NSP, GeorgeM, Beefer518 and 3 others like this.
  15. CoinBreaux

    CoinBreaux Well-Known Member

    Love contemporary counterfeits. I have a brass seated liberty half dollar and a German silver gold dollar. Where do you find these?
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  16. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    I wonder how many counterfeits (especially with wear) are in the collections of the unsuspecting? And how many thousands a counterfeiter would have turned out over the course of their career?
    C-B-D likes this.
  17. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

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