Anonymous Victoriati

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    None to show, but I came across this informative website by Kenneth Friedman and Richard Schaefer at Steve Brinkman's site detailing how these Republican issues are classified. Hope you find it helpful.
     
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Mine is not one of the varieties listed there, as mine is Crawford 95/1a


    Victoriatus.jpeg

    If mine were fully cleaned it would probably fetch around $200, but because it has a lot of hoard patina I got it for just a little over $100
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  4. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Yes, that is a great site! Still, @red_spork had to help me with mine. The seller misidentified it as Crawford 53/1, but it closest to a 44/1. red_spork has seen a handful like this reverse die, where the lines below the shield are indeterminate between skirt and greaves. (So I am saying it is a rare variety. :p) He also indicated that this is one of the earlier issues of the victoriatus, probably close to 211 BC; hoard evidence suggests it was introduced around the time of the denarius.

    Screen Shot 2018-09-18 at 8.07.11 PM.jpg
     
  5. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    The Victoriati will always be special to me(as will anonymous RR coins in general). The variety of styles, symbols and mints and how they fit into the general context of the Second Punic War and the period directly thereafter is just fascinating to me. As of an eBay win Monday I am up to 12 victoriati, 6 of which are of the "fully anonymous" varieties described in the guide by Friedman and Schaefer. I'll wait to share my latest one until it shows up but here are the others. Can you identify them?
    Cr090.2-final-1200.JPG
    Cr070.1-1200.JPG
    Cr053.1-1200.JPG
    Cr92.1b-1200.JPG
    Cr067.1-1200.JPG
     
  6. Carausius

    Carausius Brother, can you spare a sestertius?

    First is a very nice quality Cr. 90, recognizable by the scraggly hair and long, thin profile.
     
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  7. Carausius

    Carausius Brother, can you spare a sestertius?

    Here's one not included in @red_spork group above. It's an a anonymous version of a Spearhead Series victoriatus without the spearhead (which is located between Victory and trophy on the marked coins) The style is otherwise precisely identical to the victoriati bearing spearheads. Recognizable by the big knot in Victory's garment, which almost looks like a club, and the bulbous, round trophy base. The existence of both marked and anonymous Victoriati within the same series begs the questions: (1) what was the purpose of the marks, and (2) which came first, the marked or unmarked emissions, or were they contemporary?

    AnonSpearheadVic.jpg
     
  8. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    Really great group of anonymous victoriati.

    1) The first is the classic Cr. 90/2, among the rarest of the anonymous victoriatus series. It is characterized by the unmistakable style of the head of Jupiter on the obverse with straight long hair curls behind the neck and a short skirt on the reverse trophy with no base. A hoard of high grade victoriati has recently come onto the market which included a large handful of these, about doubling the known population, but still rare. this is an exceptional well centered example.

    2) Crawford 70/1 with double skirt on the trophy with prominent base. Vary large raised rim/ball on the base below the skirt. I haven't seen these dies before with this artifact so significant. Among the most common of the anonymous coins but also of the most admirable style. very nice.

    3) Crawford 53/1 - Squarish head characteristic of Cr. 53. Victory's wing is kind of two dimensional, and this usually distinguishes this variety from Cr. 44 which is similar but with more 3 dimensional wing. Greaves with no skirt or base on the trophy.

    4) Crawford 92/1b - Anonymous version of the "CROT" monogram. Rare coin. Lovely.

    5) Crawford 67/1 - Very large head of Jupiter. Trophy with skirt, greaves, AND base.

    These are all excellent well centered examples showing the very diverse styles found on this series.
     
  9. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Both @Carausius and @Fugio1 are corect in their responses. Thanks for the kind words.

    From my notes: a similar example(double skirt, underbar/ball) with dies likely cut by the same hand as mine sold in Bertolami Auction 3(May 31 2011), lot 128
     
  10. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    This is something that I've always wondered as well. Some of the anonymous Victoriati seem to be relatively early, for instance the "incuse" victoriatus Cr. 96/1, which has a legend resembling some of the quadrigati and Crawford's "An Early Hoard of Victoriati"(NC 1970) includes many of the common fully-anonymous victoriati and only a few of the inscribed varieties. It contains multiple examples of the no-Spearhead(83/1b) variety, for instance, but none with the actual Spearhead symbol(83/1a). Based on the evidence from this hoard I suspect the fully-anonymous varieties were the earliest but that the transition to varieties with symbols happened gradually. A similar phenomenon seems to have happened with the "peaked" helmet denarii which seem to have started in Sicily or Southern Italy and spread from there, at least from my view of the hoard evidence.

    The question of the purpose of the marks is of course, still a bit mysterious. They seemingly acted as mintmarks but it doesn't seem like they were just mintmarks. I'm not entirely sure how to resolve this question.
     
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