Anglo Saxon error or double strike?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Militant, Jun 13, 2019 at 7:50 PM.

  1. Militant

    Militant New Member

    ABA7E218-74E9-46EB-BF82-387598B53CB0.jpeg E2B75CFC-4FEB-4AB1-8CD1-5EC7C525E3E7.jpeg I’m new to this forum and have been collecting ancient and medieval coins for 30 years. Lately have been focusing on Anglo Saxon silver pennies and Celtic coins of all types. I recently purchased the coin pictured and need some help identifying. It seems to be a double strike on both sides or a broken die. I think the ruler may be Ethelred I based on the setup of the reverse, but not positive. Any ideas, and are these types of errors common with these types of coins?
     
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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Hey, welcome to CT. I'm going to recommend this to be moved to the Ancient Coin Forum, which is one of our busiest.
     
  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    Yes, though technically not ancient, I will be moving this to the Ancients forum, where you will get more eyes on it.

    Technically it should go on the World coins forum, since it is more a medieval than an ancient, but since more of the folks (medieval specialists) who could give you a helpful answer on it mostly hang out on the Ancients forum, that's where I'll send it, as @Kentucky suggested. Hope this helps.
     
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  5. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

  6. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist Supporter

    A very dramatic flipped double strike (you can see the flipped “mirrored” reverse). I’ve seen this on a King John penny before, so it is certainly possible, though I imagine very unusual.

    I’m afraid i’m No help with the ID, but the king certainly ends in ‘RED.’ I imagine if you have North’s book it would be a relatively easy find (I imagine there aren’t many types with three lines on the reverse and a circular inscription on the obverse).
     
  7. Militant

    Militant New Member

    Thanks everyone! Much appreciated. I’ll try to figure out how to get over to the medieval side of this site. I’ll be back though.
     
  8. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    You probably know better than I do, but the "DYF" is suggestive of Dublin... except I'm not aware of any types that would match. Maybe a modern fantasy? (The first coins from Dublin were Hiberno-Norse, like the coin below; see the "DYF" in the bottom left quadrant on the reverse.)

    Screen Shot 2019-06-14 at 11.38.33 AM.jpg
     
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  9. Militant

    Militant New Member

    What I do know is that this reverse style was common on the earlier AS pennies, 8th and 9th century, and with the Kings of Mercia coins. Typically the middle line was the moneyer name. That said, I also haven’t been able to find a moneyer from that time period that starts with a “DY”, so I remain stumped. Thanks for your thoughts!
     
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  10. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Have you seen any of these with a similar fabric and lettering style?

    Whatever it turns out to be, I know you'll enjoy the research. These mystery coins are such fun! :D
     
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  11. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist Supporter

    Fairly certain Anglo-Saxon is right. I don’t think you will find anything like that in Ireland. Maybe @TheRed has North’s book and could check?
     
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  12. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist Supporter

    And you’ll be more likely to find the medievalists here in the ancients section to be honest. Have patience - if no one comes through I have a few other sources I can have a look at beginning next week (I’m out of town at the moment...)
     
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  13. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    "Duda" or "Dudda" or "Dudwine" or "Dudig"... ? struck coins in Mercia for Burgred (example one, two, three, and four), Aethelred (here's one), and Alfred (example one, two) which match well. This would mean a triple strike (there are three instances of the "MO" clearly visible on the reverse).

    It's surely (supposed to be?) one of these, though your coin still looks odd to me. Would be fantastic if it's genuine!
     
  14. Militant

    Militant New Member

    Thanks very much!
     
  15. Militant

    Militant New Member

    Thanks very much! Looking closely at the Aethelreds, I think we’re on to something. I imagine finding a specialist in error early Anglo Saxon pennies would be too much to wish for.
     
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  16. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Do the borders look normal for an Anglo-Saxon or a known variation of the Anglo-Saxon penny?
     
  17. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Welcome to Ct :)
     
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  18. Militant

    Militant New Member

    They do look as normal as they can be considering there are actual breaks in the boarders due to the likely double strike. Size and weight is consistent with those of my other AS coins. Lettering and blank surface areas seem suspiciously lacking in wearing. I just can’t think of a reason to fake such an “impaired” coin.
     
  19. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Because it's harder to detect the fake! ;)
     
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