ancients => well, I scored myself my first Sogdiana!!

Well, I scored myself my first Sogdiana!!

I was quite happy with the result, for the initial estimate was $100, but I scored it for $60 (plus junk) ...

Yah, after hearing medoraman mentioning these babies for so long I decided that I should check it out, so I did ... thanks medoraman (you're a great coin-friend)

LOCAL ISSUES, Sogdiana. Samarkand (Pre-Ikhshid). AR Obol
4th-5th centuries AD
Diameter: 11 mm
Weight: 0.42 grams
Obverse: Bearded male head left; [Sogdian legend around]
Reverse: Schematic soldier standing facing, hand on hip and holding bow
Reference: Cf. Senior A8.6i (for type); cf. Zeno 110045 (same)
Other: 12 h ... nicely toned




=> how fricken cool, eh?

FYI => medoraman doesn't agree with the current coin's description and may have a few comments? ( I hope that he chirps-in ... otherwise, I'll be forced into translating his comments and that may result in a cloudy smoke-screen of bad coin-blah-blah)

 

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It looks like a work of Picasso's, from his Primitivism period. I think it's fabulous!

 

Neato! Hey @medoraman, have you shown us your Sogdian collection? If not, why are you being stingy?

 

Congrats, love the reverse of it.

 

It seems to exhibit Celtic influences---any connection?? Or was this the inspiration Picasso had to inspire JA's joke LOL

I think it a great buy!!!

 

Actually, Picasso was inspired by African art - same idea, different continent.

 

neat little coin stevex! i've seen these with the archer reverse, have even bid on one before (i lost)...still on my list.

is the coin scyphate or are my eye playing tricks with me?

 

Hey @TIF I have shown some here over the years. I figured most wouldn't want the whole shebang. I was in contact with Steve about his purchase. Its just an interesting area, with tons of coins most western collectors have never seen.

This particular one used to be very rare until about 3 years ago more started coming out of the fields. Now its only much rarer than most Roman coins, not dramatically rarer.

My problem with the timeline they use to attribute this is:

1. Its a imitation of a Seleucid coin
2. Hirkod silver coins stylistically came after it
3. By the 3rd century the Silk Road had moved north through Sogdia, and they were swimming in Persian silver coins.

So, why the heck would they be minting imitations of Seleucid silver coins 600-700 years after they circulated, in an area with more Persian silver than you could carry? My dating, looking at all of the issues in the area, would place the dating more around 0-100 AD, with the horse head obols being 200-0 BC, and the Hirkod issues being from 100-200AD. After that, Persian silver would have circulated freely in the area. Even Hunnic silver in the area started by 370AD, so again no sense why they attribute this one so late.

 

Which Seleucid issue does the OP coin imitate? To my eyes, the reverse shares more similarity with the Achaemenid emperor-with-bow types.

 

I cannot remember which, but its always listed as Antiochus imitation. The Hirkod, (local ruler), is a derivative of this type. Unfortunately we do not have the history Roman and Greek collectors have, so we have no records of when Hirkod ruled.

You know, thinking of all of these people talking about Sogdian coins is making me nervous. Really, Sogdian coins SUCK, and no one EVER should collect them! (and leave them to me please)....

 

Btw, this type also comes in larger modules, (early examples of the type), as well as some types have obverse legends, and a scarcer later type does not have a bust at all on the obverse but lettering. I have all but the lettering obverse.

 

Now that's a cool little coin. Nice pickup!

 

Wow, that's awesome, medoraman => thank you for stepping-in and preventing me from looking even more foolish than usual (I owe ya, my friend)

Yah => I am thinking that this looks a lot like those cool archer reverses that chrsmat and a few of you often post (sadly, I don't have an example "yet" ... but it'll go very nicely with this example once I do score one of 'em, eh?)

Hey, if any of you dudes know what coin I'm referring to, then "please" post an example, or ten!!

Thanks, gang!!

Cheers

 

Cool piece! Very unusual. It has a very unique imitative look and characteristic of a central Asian design. Plus a great price to moot!

 

Cheers to that => a great price to moot, my friend!!

 

The only decent source I have been able to find on these coins is in Russian, Zeimal (1983), Drevnie monety Tajikistana. To summarize Zeimal (with the assistance of online translation), these coins belong to the post-Kushan period, following the related Antiochus horse-head imitations. The circulation of the archer coins ended with the Hephthalite conquest of Sogdiana in AD 509, replaced by Sasanian and related coinage. Dating is derived from hoard evidence as well as by the coins naming Kidara (see below) who flourished in the early 4th century. The coins are believed to be fiduciary drachms, over-valued relative to their intrinsic worth and limited in circulation to the region around Samarkand. While some see different denominations, there is no clustering of weight, only a steadily declining module down to about .2 gm by the end of the series. Zeimal divides the archer coins into 4 phases: 1) those with Greek legends derived from ANTIOXOY; 2.) those with Sogdian legends in better style (naming either βγwrty or hprwrnh); 3.) those in cruder style naming kydr (Kidara); and 4.) cruder-style anepigraphic (or nearly so) pieces. The coin which began this thread would be an example of Zeimal's phase 4.

 

Steve love your new coin..

 

Does Ziemal place either the Hirkod issues, (maybe he is saying they are really Kidara?), or the legend only issues? Does the earlier, heavier pieces have the finer style? I have one piece that weighs over 2 grams, so more than 4 times heavier than Steve's piece.

I really wish I read Russian. I have most of the references but cannot read their arguments, just look at the pretty pictures.

 

Same here. Definitive references on these seems to be from Russian sources which I can't read a single word of.