The only Greek coin I bought at Baltimore was this silver triobol of Phokis from the mid 5th century BC. I liked the coin but like it more now that I can throw it up here as an example of something I harp upon here over and over. Some coin dealers try too hard to make windfall profits and some of you are rewarding them. I do too but not on the same coins. This is not an exceptional example of this coin. (TIF will say it is defective because there is very similar coin with a boar's head instead of Artemis.) This issue is not famous for being well centered and this one loses two of the four letters on the reverse. All in all it is a collector grade coin and the sort of thing I buy. ...and now, the rest of the story. The coin happens to appear on acsearch: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=695262 In 2013 it failed to sell in an auction where it carried an estimate of $400. The failed seller's photo added a great deal of contrast emphasizing one major scratch and blanking out a few others. If you go on acsearch and decide that this coin type in this condition is worth $400 based on this listing, you may pay too much. The dealer I bought this from got the coin as part of a lot for failed sellers. I have no idea how much he paid for it but I accepted his price of $125. Considering the flaws, I do not consider this a great bargain. I have absolutely no problem with dealers who offer really nice coins at high prices. If it did not have the scratches and centering problems, this coin might be worth the $400 (maybe?) but the fact is that it is not perfect and should not sell for anything approaching that price. I may have paid too much but I suspect a couple of you would have gone higher for a coin with the pig rather than Artemis. Right? http://www.acsearch.info/search.htm...=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ol=1&sort=&c=&a=&l=#10
Or...we might have totally ignored the auction estimate as they rarely have any relationship to the hammer price, one way or another. It's a beautiful coin! And your image is much nicer than Pegasi's.
I do not have any coins from Phokis and of course you are correct in that I want one with the boar. Wouldn't turn up my nose at yours though. I would hope that when people use acsearch to find comps they would take notice of whether the coin sold or if the price was just the failed estimate. Edited: yes, I probably would have willingly paid more than the hammer for that second example.
I really like your new coin ... I would have tried to research the selling prices of similar coins before I randomly bid $400 (after checking-out several similar coins, I'm thinking that you got it for a nice price) ... I think $400 certainly seems too high (I start to get very picky, very quickly, once the coin-price passes my $250 comfy-zone) => super cool new addition (congrats!!)
Nice insight into pricing Doug. I almost made it up to Baltimore this weekend but just couldn't get away from all the obligations I had. I'd like to walk the floor of a major show some time with someone who has experience in ancients. I'm still trying to figure out pricing on these coins. It seems there is a lot more wiggle room in general with ancients than there is with say US coins. But the same basic principles hold true. The highest quality coins carry the biggest premiums. Rarity and popularity also come into play. Like anything else, I'm sure it just takes lots experience in the particular field/ area of expertise. With the last few 12 Caesar coins I'm seeking, it's obvious to me that I'm in the area where demand is starting to outweigh supply. But I'm getting close, I got outbid this weekend on two coins, but I was the second highest bidder/price setter on each. Nice coin BTW.
It's a really nice coin. I've been attracted to this type as well, but haven't yet seen one at a price I like. That it went unsold at the Pegasi auction should probably remind those searching auction results that it's the hammered price that matters rather than the estimate.
I like your coin since I have one similar. But I'm curious. When you saw the coin at the Baltimore show, did you know anything about it's history? Were you aware the coin was placed for auction with an estimate at $400 and did not sell? If you knew this, how did you know it was this particular coin? Did you have your computer at hand or did the seller confirm it's history? The reason I ask all this is that I am amazed sometimes at your knowledge. Depending on your answers to these questions, I could be very amazed at your memory as well. You and I are of similar age, and I can honestly say my memory is not what it once was. In fact, sometimes I'm lucky to remember what I ate for supper the night before (okay, that is a slight exaggeration). Anyway, I purchased my Phokis Triobol in November 2012 at a price of $198 shipped. It is also a ex Rockefeller University / Dr. Alfred E. Mirsky Collection coin, so I overpaid because of the pedigree. Your price of $125 is excellent in my opinion even with the flaws you note. The incuse square on yours is pronounced, the metal looks better, and the bulls head has better detail. Mine has Apollo with decent detail verses your Artimis with less detail. All in all, you got a good price I think. PHOKIS, FEDERAL COINAGE AR Triobol OBVERSE: Bull’s head facing REVERSE: Laureate head of Apollo right, Φ-Ω before, lyre behind Struck at Phokis 357-346 BC 2.50g, 14mm SNG Cop 121
I own nothing like this but a super nice coin. As for me, i'd probably go for the lady, as I tend to do.
When I saw the coin I only knew that the general type came in more than one style/date range. In researching it (this is a middle period coin; yours is later), I ran across the acsearch listing. However, I am much more likely to identify by face any of 200 Romans or by die several dozen coins in the Severan period than I am to recognize someone that was introduced to ten years ago. At the show I saw a friend of long standing but that I had not seen for a year. He got a new haircut and I did not recognize him. Embarrassing!
Still, your memory amazes me and your coin knowledge amazes even more. If I had gone to that show, I MAY have remembered I had a similar coin, but details would not come to mind without some sort of reminder.
Great coin Doug. I wouldn't have spent $400. Rather I would have found a much more worn version for $60 and probably would have over paid. Actually I almost did, had both coins on my wishlist at times in barely identifiable conditions.
very cool...love the bull. question: does the OP coin and bings both show "crystallization"? I don't know how to described what I mean really, not porous but kind of a rough , gauze like surface?
Yes, many very pure coins of this era have crystallization. The seller had a second of these for less ($90?) but the one I bought had better centering.
Maybe next time you can do the $100 challenge with Doug. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/acmshow.html Nice coin Doug, a smart snag.
I liked that vignette. I've read it before, still a very entertaining read. I think the basic message is you don't have to be rich to have fun with this niche of the hobby. That's a great message to get out there.
