I scanned through a few pages here and didn't see any massive opinion wars about slabbing ancients, so I thought I'd ask some opinions. I re-started my adult collecting by collecting a coin from each century of an interesting ruler as far back as I could go. It forced me to learn a bit more too. I had always enjoyed Roman History, but the rest was a black hole. I learned that King Edward "Longshanks" did a lot of good for England that didn't make it into Braveheart and many other things across the centuries. Maybe I'll start a thread asking people to post their favorite collection of ancients by century as well. The oldest I picked up was this coin from Pantikapaion (sp?) near the Black Sea. Attributed it as Seaby 1701 - Lion and Sturgeon with a beardless Pan. I have it in a flip, which seems to be protecting it well enough. It isn't THAT valuable a coin, but I enjoy handling slabs for some reason. Seems more substantial to have a huge hunk of plastic in my hand than just a coin? Anyway, Ancient coins aren't usually perfectly round and I'm not sure how well these coins get "set" into a slab - see the shape of my Vespasian Judea Capta denarius: This coin, I think I'd be more interested in slabbing because of condition and value. I'm not positive, but I think it may be toning darker in the vault, but the shape seems to be a deterrent? NGC appears to be doing world coins/ancients, but I've not heard good or bad about them. Are others more reputable/better? Does slabbing them make them easier/harder to determine counterfeits? Any thoughts and theories appreciated. Thanks, Scott
Most ancient collectors prefer unslabbed coins. NGC, although backed up by vagi's (and others) opinion on the coins they grade, they do not guarantee the the authenticity. I also feel that they should use a 10 point scale instead of a 5, as a 5 doesn't leave much room. I really don't care personally whether they are slabbed or raw, and I'd prefer slabbed actually for the higher priced ancients. If slabbed is what you prefer, go with NGC because of the name and the profit potential (I've seen $35 Gordians go for $75+ on ebay). BTW....I envy your Judea capta. stainless
Did you ask for opinions: If you wish to pay $75 for a $35 coin, feel free to slab it but when you lose interest in coins do not expect me to pay you more than the $35 minus any amount I feel appropriate to crack the thing out of the slab and run the risk of the coin not being what I expected since I could not see the edges. Today there are more collectors that agree with me but the slab companies are making a good effort to attract new collectors who would rather pay them to do the thinking than learn what is needed to collect ancients the 'old way'. Most of us today like to touch our coins and really have little to talk about with those who prefer to touch plastic. At the moment, NGC is probably the only opinion printed on a slab that adds any value to the contents but I do not see that opinion as worth the cost of their service. I do recommend buying coins from dealers that are capable of rendering an opinion worth something and that back their opinions with a money back guarantee whether or not the coin in question is contained in a sealed coffin. There is no such thing as an ancient 'expert' that is never fooled and that certainly includes the employees of the slab companies. I am hopeful that I will be able to find the coins I desire for the rest of my life without having to consider purchase of my second slab. My first was put out of its misery.
Thank you. I went through dozens before coming across this one. I don't know what the market values, but I wanted to see all the letters in the legend and so many coins were off-center. I agree that I'd like to see a 10 point scale instead of 5. Just doesn't have the sort of resolution I'd like to see. dougsmit has a good point about the egdes. I haven't looked at NGC world grading to see if they use the newer form of holder where you can see edges or not to help prove it isn't cast. I suppose modern collecting has ruined me though. I'd never consider actually holding this coin in my hand. Up until recently, this was the most expensive coin I'd ever bought. Maybe on some of the others...
I own zero slabbed coins, and the first thing I would do if I bought one is get it out of there. Having an ancient coin in a slab detracts from its value for me. I'm much less likely to buy it, simply because I don't want the pain and bother of removing it from is coffin. I would have to get a great deal on a great coin to even consider one. This seems to run counter to the intent of slabbers who see it as a way of increasing value.
I have very few ancient coins, and even fewer slabbed coins of any type. Most coins I have are inexpensive, raw, and usually have been already attributed and authenticated. It would not be worthwhile to have these coins further attributed and authenticated (as well as slabbed) by NGC-Ancients. If I were to buy a more expensive coin, however, I would want some authentication. There are literally millions of authentic Ancient coins still in existence, many still waiting to be found. Contrary to the opinion of many dealers and collectors, however, there is also an increasing number of modern forgeries (some quite good) on the market. Many reputable dealers offer an authentication (as well as a guarantee) without slabbing. NGC Ancients offers an excellent independent authentication service by respected Ancient numismatics scholar David Vagi as well as expert attribution (but NGC-Ancients do not offer a guarantee). NGC-Ancients also encapsulate the coins in a hard plastic container, which helps the novice or the careless collector preserve the coin for posterity. Slabbing ancient coins is extremely controversial, however. Many knowledgeable ancient collectors detest the idea of slabbing any ancient coin. Some collectors feel that only the highest grade and most expensive coins could potentially be slabbed to add to the authentication and preservation of the coin. Other coin collectors feel that once any ancient coin is slabbed, they lose the tactile joy of holding a two thousand year piece of history in their hands. Also, some ancient coin collectors fear that once their cherished ancient coins are slabbed, they will become more like a commodity, no longer admired and treasured, but flipped like some stock in the heartless market (as modern coins frequently are). Finally, to the surprise of many novice collectors, most ancient coins are relatively inexpensive, making any added fee for authentication an unnecessary expense. Personally, I view slabs as akin to an English menu in a foreign restaurant. It is an excellent guide for the beginner, but may be either a hindrance or a help for the more experienced collector. The old adage is especially true for ancient coins: "Buy the coin and not the slab." guy
in my opinion ancient coins should never be slabbed, part of the beauty of these coins is being able to handle them (with care) and imagine all the other people throughout history have done exactly the same, my preferred area of ancient collecting is celtic and if i came across one i wanted which happened to be slabbed it would be released from it's tomb post haste. for example i have a beautiful iceni stater, and one can only imagine if it had at one time been held by boudeccia herself??????
I own one ancient slab, misidentifying the ruler, year struck, and mint. I keep it for giggles. Remember, just recently the Octodrachm that was withdrawn by Berk was slabbed. Slabbing ancients does not guarantee their authenticity, the ONLY thing I would find it valuable for. My other problem with slabbing is that they use US grading for ancients. Grading ancient coins has been around for hundreds of years before we were shooting turkeys, and now they think they have the right to impose US grading onto this field? Yeah, there is controversy around slabbing ancients. Most ancient collectors are fervently against it, and most of us do buy slabs, (if a good buy, completely ignoring slab cost), and crack them out. I admit I have bought a slab or two just for the good feeling I get from cutting it open. Slabs, to me, are for people new to ancients. Any time I see an ancient collector with a bunch of slabs I just assume they have close to zero knowledge of the coins, and I am usually right. I had one show me his "ancient error coin" slabbed, all excited about how much he thought it was worth. I told him it is worth 3 times the price if he can find a NON ERROR one! (common byzantine poor coin). Chris
I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I only own three ancients & a couple medieval coins. None of them are in slabs but I really have too little experience with these old coins to add to the comments already posted. Thanks for posting the coins Scott.
what "error" was he saying it was? i don't own a slabbed coin, ancient or modern. if i did purchase one slabbed, it would be freed from its prison. i'm not going to pay an extra premium for plastic.
To paraphrase the quote from "Raiders of the Lost Ark": "You and I are walking through history, Dr. Jones". "This IS history". In the film the "Lost Ark" was eventually "slabbed" and consigned to a warehouse.
totally agree i think that i am good enough to grade my own coins and would baulk at paying someone to do the same job and then seal my coin in a plastic coffin. if coins were intended to be sealed in plastic then i am sure the relevent mints around the world would issue them that way.
Lol, he was pointing out how the Byzantine had an overstrike and some strike doubling. I was dead serious he would have a much more expensive coin if he could find one WITHOUT those things. Byzantines are so frequently struck poorly an error is the norm sometimes. Error coins are only interesting and maybe valuable when they are rare. When they are the norm, they are simply deficient examples, just like worn coins.
Lol. I have one poor coin, struck, overstruck, quartered, struck again doubled. Its a complete mishmash of junk. I am really surprised that piece of metal still exists intact. I saw a quartered double struck piece, my friend had to point out the overstrike on the original coin to me. I really feel sorry for it, thats the reason I keep it. Its like a beaten stray dog.
My Slabbed Sesterces, and thoughts on slabbing ancients.... I am not big on the debate between 'to slab or not to slab' The only slabbed ancients I have/had were that way when I bought them and I got a heck of a good deal (under $30 each). The first slabbed coin I bought was a MARS ULTOR Sestertius of Severus Alexander slabbed by ANACS, I still have it, one of my favorite Roman Bronzes, however when being shipped to me, the slab cracked a bit and obscured the portrait of the Emperor, this saddened me, and after a year or so I decided it was time to move. I took a hacksaw and removed it, careful to keep the little info sheet intact.... upon opening it I noticed that this coin was far too thick to have been placed in such a slab in the first place, which likely lead to it's crack and eventual removal by me. My other slabbed ancient is another Sestertius of Severus Alexander 'ROMAE AETERNAE' slabbed by NGC Ancients. I still have this one too, and have not removed it, nor do I plan to, since it looks nice and all is visible through the slab, so I plan on keeping it this way.... like I said both these coins I bought while slabbed, and paid around USD $30 for each, years ago, a good price by any standards I think. So anyhow here are some pics of the one I removed. First pic: My MARS ULTOR Sestertius in its original slab, before it was cracked in transit. Second and Third pic: My MARS ULTOR Sestertius removed from its slab. Flash/No Flash. Beautiful coin I think, looks much nicer this way. Fourth pic: My MARS ULTOR Sestertius just after removal from slab, with slab pieces around. ( I admit I did a bit of a sloppy job removing it, but I didn't feel like breaking out the band saw or anything like that, and was actually quite careful, even if it doesn't look that way from the remains, this being one of my favorite coins I was especially careful when removing it. ) Fifth pic: My ROMAE AETERNAE Sestertius of Sev Alexander, Slabbed by NGC Ancients, Obverse only... out of room for pics.... I like the portrait on this one, and have no plans to remove it from it's slab, I also like the newer NGC slabs that show a little of the edge. Anyhow that is my experience with removing ancients from slabs, but I have no strong opinion on them, I guess some people like their ancients un-toucheable and sealed in plastic.... not me though.... however I do not think I would ever send any of my Ancient coins, even my nicest rarest ones (like the one on my avatar) to be slabbed, I like to be able to take out and hold the history, and it makes a much deeper impression on people that I show them to I think, especially youngsters.... just my opinion.
