Ancient walked in today...what is it?

I may be wrong here but of all these that i have seen this one stands out as "too round". These coins were not struck in a collar and therfor are usually not so perfect but usually are ovaled,elongated ,or otherwise less than perfectly round.

Just my opinion

Richard

 

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Are you speaking of the original poster or the images I recently posted?

 

I trust the opinions of others on this forum MUCH more than I do that of PCGS. If you absolutely must lock this coin up, send it to NGC - at least THEY can give a better attribution.

 

the original post

Richard

 

I was unaware that NGC authenticated ancient coins! Are you inferring that a coin authenticated by PCGS may not actually be "authentic"...? Or merely that NGC is more accurate...?

Reason I ask is bc I hear constant debate over "which company grades better"... The top two (spoken of) are obviously PCGS and NGC...

Care to elaborate...?

 

NGC does not guarantee that their slabbed ancients are genuine. BUT - PCGS slabs ancients as "Money of the Bible" regardless of how far the coin is from any biblical relation. NGC will at least say "AR Tetradrachm - Tyre, Phoenicia." Its as if PCGS were to slab a coin as "Nickel" and NGC as "1938 D, MS 63." There is no doubt which is the better company when it comes to ancients. Whether these coins belong in plastic at all is where the debate lies.

Best to check all your conceptions at the door when you start ancients.

 

That is great to know! Wow... Collecting ancients is a WORLD of difference as compared to rare U.S (obviously!) lol seems a bit daunting for a newbie at collecting such as myself!

I purchased the Shekel of Tyre in an attempt to get the same type of coin that Judas had given in exchange for Jesus ( biblically speaking). I find it fascinating to have such a coin! I hope I did t get duped! LOL! With all the ancients floating around ( including the mounds of fakes)... I only felt comfortable with buying a "genuine" coin...

Your knowledge on the subject is something I hope to learn from...

 

Better off sending it to Sear if you really want an authentication ancient collectors respect (or at least Forvm or Beast). Of course he won't put it in a plastic coffin. Although David Vagi runs NGC's ancients and they won't slab it if they think it's fake, that's something.

 

Maybe it's the lighting or something, but it looks like it's had a silver wash or been plated or something.

 

I think its a cast...the details are so soft as well as other aspects pointed out here, style, strike, flan... I have little doubt. NGC does not guaranteed authenticity so that is a waste of time sending it there. You get just as much guarantee from someone off the street IMO.

 

I see no reasonable doubt that the OP coin is anything but a modern fake. It appears to be silver plated but does not show the signs of the technique used to silver plate fake coins in that time so I would not suspect it of being an ancient fake.

The reason the Tyre coins were acceptable for temple use was that that city had a reputation for purity of the silver in its coins. They did not debase to 90% or Sterling levels in the name of making a product that would wear well. They used good silver. Good silver wears in a specific way. This OP coin does not show that smooth kind of wear. The reddish areas seem to be where they would be if the coin were copper and plated. The coin shown in the PCGS holder is hard to see clearly because of the PCGS holder but could quite possibly be genuine. I would not accept the opinion of PCGS as 'gospel' but I see nothing from the photo that suggests they were incorrect. I would say that David Vagi's work with NGC is more likely to be correct than other slab brands but you are not buying guaranteed correctness and more people who would buy a slabbed ancient might prefer a brand matching their US coins.

There is another point here that should be addressed. This coin, as was pointed out, is faked more often than any other ancient. There is a huge demand for them from Christian and Jewish collectors and Bible readers that have no interest in collecting coins in general. This situation is shared by Widow's Mites and Tribute Pennies but thos coins exist by the millions (perhaps billions when it comes to the Widow's Mites?). As common as they are, these two coins are often faked. Tyrian silver is not as common but the demand is there. What appears to be a good deal on one is most likely to be a fake. Coins that don't look very good at all bring over $300 while nice ones seem to be closer to $1000. It is not a coin to buy from anything but the most reputable and knowledgeable dealer.

 

The OPs coin is not only fake IMO, but a rather por one, here are a few examples I believe are genuine:

 

Wow! Such good info on this website! I love it! Question for "dougsmit" (or anyone else willing to offer their opinion)...

Would it be silly of me to send in my PCGS certified coin to NGC to be "reauthenticated"...?

I'm trying to find out if my camera has some sort of macro setting so I can take nicer close-ups for your critique!

 

no...just my opinion. These companies will not offer any guarentee regarding the authenticy of your coin...they are just slabbing ancients to get more money. Its a false sense of security they are selling, they often cant even attribute the coin correctly, let alone say with any confidence if it is real. If you want to put the coin in front of a person who would be best suited to make such a call, look up David Sear...He is quoted a lot but there are many others as well. TPGs are not (and I hope, never will) viable for ancients...and why would you want to lock a lovely ancient coin in cheap plastic anyway?

 

Here are some close-ups..... I went from years of PC to a new macbook pro... i LOVE it but am not nearly used to it yet... LOL. Took me forever to figure out how to reduce the image yet enlarge the size... LOL... ahhhh

Hope thats close enough for you all the critique a little better...

 

I agree with Drusus' opinion. I see no reason to doubt the slabbed coin as it is and see no gain switching brands with no guarantees. If I were a slabbing company on ancients, I also would never offer a guarantee since that would require raising the service price to a level high enough to insure myself against the possibility of error. Right now, the novelty value market for a fake or grossly misidentified coin slabbed as genuine by a major service would probably make real and fake worth about the same. I would not set the coin free since there will always be a market for this particular coin among non-collectors who would find the PCGS label worth the additional cost.

 

I appreciate the knowledge that others have assessing Ancient coins (since I have little or none).

I also agree that certifying / slabbing any low cost Ancient coin is not worth the effort or cost.

That said, I would be a complete fool (given my lack of numismatic skills) to buy any expensive coin (Ancient or otherwise) without a professional assessment / certification +/- slabbing.

NGC does do Ancients. They are run by respected author and scholar David Vagi.

I used my NGC free submissions before they expired for five very low-end (but interesting!) Ancient coins, including three Parthian coins.

Here are the results:

001 Vologases III AD 105-147 PARTHIAN KINGDOM AR Drachm Ch XF graffito
002 Vologases IV AD 190 PARTHIAN KINGDOM AR Drachm AU
*003 Phraates IV 38-2 BC PARTHIAN KINGDOM AR Drachm Unable to determine authenticity (Was not slabbed)
004 Carinus AD 283-285 ROMAN EMPIRE BI Aurelianianus Ch VF
005 Sept. Severus AD 193-211 ROMAN EMPIRE AR Denarius AU


I agree that slabbing an Ancient coin (or any coin, for that matter) removes the tactile pleasure of possessing a coin. I find it reassuring to know, however, that the coin I prize is authentic. A picture certification would have been adequate for me. I appreciate the efforts Vagi made to assess my inexpensive (but priceless to me) Ancients.

guy

*This coin was sold to me with a "lifetime guarantee of authenticity."

 

I share in your same mindset! I am not nearly knowledgeable enough to determine the authenticity of an ancient myself!

One question though... Given my Shekel of Tyre is authentic... What would be the "value" of such a coin (pics of mine are above)? I've seen them selling for upwards of over $2,000 for a PCGS Authentic Shekel of Tyre! I assume that's WAY over it's value....

 

I'm not so sure that PCGS routinely authenticates Ancients. (I know NGC does.)

In answer to your question:

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?search=Silver+shekel+from+Tyre&view_mode=1&cac=1&cng=1&fac=1#0


guy

 

Thanks ALOT for that info! Seems that they range dramatically in price! That's in an auction setting so I can assume that many "retail" places are marking them up a lot based on their religious significance! (I was one of them! Lol)

I feel I got a good deal though, I'm only in it for $550... It was worth that to me for the biblical implecations that the coin was used for (Judas and the betrayal of Jesus... Biblically and historically speaking, that is...)