Ancient Persian/Greek silver coin? Please help!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by coin0709, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    I'd love your help steering me in the right direction with this coin. Sorry about the resolution. This is the best I could do. Thanks!
     

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  3. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    Sorry, forgot to provide the weight and diameter which are 14.6g and ~30mm. This coin is silver.
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

  5. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    Thanks Doug. Yes, sorry for the grainy pics. This is the best I could do for now with my iPhone, until I get home and can take better ones with my real camera. I'm debating sending it off to NGC. Would better images significantly help you decide if it is 100% fake or genuine.
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    No. The point was that sellers of genuine coins in that price bracket generally provide an image better than what you might take with a phone so the assumption is you bought the coin from a non-standard source. This coin is extensively faked. While I do not approve of slabbed coins, it needs to be shown to someone in person (not photos) so NGC would work.
     
  7. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    Agreed. In looking on Worthpoint, sold presumed authentic unslabbed examples sell from $70 (counterstamped but decent condition) to $1800 (Goldberg auctions). Is that in the range of what you would think it is worth if authentic? Probably $400-$800?
     
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    You obviously did not follow the link I gave above or you might have seen the one that brought $18k and the one for $150. "Presumed authentic" is humorous. There are people who think that if a certainly genuine coin is worth $1000 that a "presumed authentic" is worth more than melt (and that presumes that it is silver). Show the coin to someone 'in person' and decide if it is worth getting an opinion from David Sear or NGC. You did not tell us where you got the coin. If you bought it from a respected dealer it is most likely genuine; if you got it from your driver while deployed in Afghanistan, chances of it being real are not good.
     
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  9. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I am confident, even from a fuzzy photo, that it is fake. The letters are far too thick. It is not even very deceptive. Don't spend money attempting to authenticate it; it is not authentic.
     
  10. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    Ok, I'm not sure why you automatically assume the worst. I am a small-time online dealer. My expertise is US and foreign coins and currency. Ancients are virtually a black box for me right now, but I am using your website routinely to help tentatively ID coins. Those that baffle me, I respectfully ask for guidance. The subject of this post is owned by a friend and he believes it to be authentic, but I told him if he wants me to sell it for him, we MUST have it authenticated to realize anywhere near what it could be worth. I do not see how 'presumed authentic' is humorous. I would consider ALL non-slabbed ancients offered on eBay as 'presumed authentic' without seeing them in person or coming from a uber-respectable dealer, and would of course bid accordingly. This is why I used that term to explain the realized prices I found on Worthpoint since none were slabbed and most were from eBay.
    As to your point about me "obviously" not following the link you gave above. I did follow it. Thank you, but to see the realized prices I had to create some login and password which I was not willing to do. Perhaps I should if that site is top notch?
    Lastly, Dougsmit thank you for your help over the past year or so, and I hope it can continue.

    Regards,
    RMiller MS PhD
    Charleston, SC
     
  11. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    Thank you for your opinion. I'll let you know what the final verdict is. I hope you are wrong. :)
     
  12. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    I guess i am one of the few members here who specializes in Indo-Greeks. You do not have to take my word for it, and no one can stop you from wasting your money. However, this fake specimen is so bad it makes most published fake specimen on ForgeryNetwork (http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=iG1tkvi3FV8=) look like works of art.
    Don't have a Demetrios (they're expensive). But just to show a real one, here's an Eukratides I (ca171-145 BC) Tetradrachm.
    EukratidesTetra.jpg

    Regards,

    Anthony (MD, PhD)
     
  13. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    In the US, those accused of a felony are innocent until proven guilty. For those of us who collect ancient coins, things we see in local coin shops run by US experts are best considered guilty until proven innocent. If you count up the number of Indo Greek silver coins we have been shown here on CT by people who presume them to be authentic and the coins we have seen in shops run by people who are not really into ancients, you will find that the vast majority are fakes ranging from a bit deceptive to hilariously terrible. We repeatedly tell people that beginners should buy coins from trusted specialist dealers and not from pawn shops, coin shops who have a large sign out front "We Buy Gold" or people you meet while on vacation 'over there'.

    I'm sorry I offended anyone. I am also sorry that most of the coins we here on CT have warned were fakes were probably recycled into the hands someone else who will be holding out hope that there is some chance the '$2000' coin is genuine and they made a killing buying it for only a hundred or two. Do I assume the worst? Certainly! I have seen this before. People who buy good coins from good sources that have a really high probability of being genuine do not post fuzzy phone photos on an amateur discussion board. After seeing this scenario run by several times we might be better off just ignoring the post and letting someone else say 'nice coin'. I would hate to fall for one that was a high quality fake just because I have seen so many terrible ones.
     
  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Don't do that Doug. Too many of us rely on your and other's expertise.
     
  15. coin0709

    coin0709 CT Supporter

    Doug, All points well taken. Let's move on. Hope to chat again on CT sometime soon. Cheers, R
     
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