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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3004434, member: 112"]The basic concepts covered by just your single paragraph - it would take several chapters in a book to explain it thoroughly. In fact it did in "Gold Ducats Of The Netherlands - Vol. I" which I spent over 4 years working on. Of course what that book talks about occurred 800 years <u>after</u> what was going on in 8th century Egypt. The thing about it is - it was the same things still going on. For example, you can compare the Arab Caliphate to the Holy Roman Empire as being the primary authority. And each had their standards for their coinage. I can't speak as to how exactly the standards were posted for the populace in the Arab lands, but in medieval Europe they were posted in the form of placards, decrees, posted to a pole or display board in the squares and markets. The law was these standards were to be strictly followed, even under penalty of death should they not be.</p><p><br /></p><p>But the way it worked, or at least the way it was supposed to work, was this. The primary authority would issue minting rights, which were typically purchased outright, to subordinate local authorities. This allowed the primary authority to make money as result of the purchase of the minting rights, and allowed the local authority to make money in the form of seigniorage. Thus both parties were happy. And the profits realized also worked their way right on down the line. </p><p><br /></p><p>Within each mint for example you had the mintmaster, and the assayer, each of which had control over certain things within the mint. That control allowed each of them to make money surreptitiously should they choose to do so. They could do this in concert, or even without the other knowing. Local merchants would then bring the raw materials in the form of precious metals to the local mints, and they would make money because when those raw materials were turned into coins they ended up having more buying power than they would have with the raw materials in their original form. Now understand, like I said, that's how it was "supposed to work". That doesn't mean it actually did !</p><p><br /></p><p>What often happened, and I think a lot more often than most ever realize, was everybody got greedy. In some cases everybody involved, from the local minting authority right on down to the local merchant, got together and decided that all of them would cheat - thus allowing them to make even more money. Other times it might only be one of them, or two, anywhere along the chain who did the cheating. Bottom line, it was beyond commonplace for the coins coming out of the mint to not have been minted according to the standards. And it was not uncommon for them to get away with this for quite a while. And yes some would get caught and be punished in various, often horrible ways, including death. But others would get away with it by buying their way out when they got caught, and or as a result of patronage in high places. And some of these cheaters would even become famous, and sought out by other nobles in other areas with their own minting authority, wanting them to come to work for them so they could make all that extra money. Some assayers and mintmasters built entire careers on this premise.</p><p><br /></p><p>There could even be more to this for in some cases there might even be more than one standard in play. A local minting authority for example could be given minting rights by more than one primary minting authority. This scenario would sometimes play out when that local minting authority happened to someplace close to the border for example. And as borders shifted slightly as they often did, or as primary rulers changed, the local could be minting coins under the standards of 2 different entities - and doing so at the same time. And if one of those entities happened to take issue with the coins being substandard, the offender would claim to the guy complaining that what he was perfectly legal because minting coins under the authority of the other guy. In other words he would play both primary authorities off against each other. It was an ingenious scheme, and it worked very well !</p><p><br /></p><p>There is one more point to be considered whenever we discuss coinage standards. A point that most aren't even aware of, or never think about. And it applies at any particular time period in history. Even though the standard might be 2.93gm in pure silver, or 3.5gm in .986 gold, there were always tolerance levels also applied to those standards. And it was extremely commonplace for those tolerance levels to vary from time to time - as well as the standards themselves varying from time to time. For example, even when the standard by law was .986 gold, with the tolerance applied a coin could be minted of .981 gold and the local merchants and money changers were instructed to accept that coin as being completely legal and perfectly acceptable for use in circulation.</p><p><br /></p><p>So when one considers all of this, and I do mean all of it, that's why the guy in the bazaar would bother about that !</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I don't disagree, but it's not something new really, I wrote a paper about it for school over 50 years ago - and it was an old and widely accepted idea even then.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Well, I don't hang out in universities any more, in fact I don't hang out period anymore <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> But I don't consider it to be a crackpot idea, I consider it to be a near certainty.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3004434, member: 112"]The basic concepts covered by just your single paragraph - it would take several chapters in a book to explain it thoroughly. In fact it did in "Gold Ducats Of The Netherlands - Vol. I" which I spent over 4 years working on. Of course what that book talks about occurred 800 years [U]after[/U] what was going on in 8th century Egypt. The thing about it is - it was the same things still going on. For example, you can compare the Arab Caliphate to the Holy Roman Empire as being the primary authority. And each had their standards for their coinage. I can't speak as to how exactly the standards were posted for the populace in the Arab lands, but in medieval Europe they were posted in the form of placards, decrees, posted to a pole or display board in the squares and markets. The law was these standards were to be strictly followed, even under penalty of death should they not be. But the way it worked, or at least the way it was supposed to work, was this. The primary authority would issue minting rights, which were typically purchased outright, to subordinate local authorities. This allowed the primary authority to make money as result of the purchase of the minting rights, and allowed the local authority to make money in the form of seigniorage. Thus both parties were happy. And the profits realized also worked their way right on down the line. Within each mint for example you had the mintmaster, and the assayer, each of which had control over certain things within the mint. That control allowed each of them to make money surreptitiously should they choose to do so. They could do this in concert, or even without the other knowing. Local merchants would then bring the raw materials in the form of precious metals to the local mints, and they would make money because when those raw materials were turned into coins they ended up having more buying power than they would have with the raw materials in their original form. Now understand, like I said, that's how it was "supposed to work". That doesn't mean it actually did ! What often happened, and I think a lot more often than most ever realize, was everybody got greedy. In some cases everybody involved, from the local minting authority right on down to the local merchant, got together and decided that all of them would cheat - thus allowing them to make even more money. Other times it might only be one of them, or two, anywhere along the chain who did the cheating. Bottom line, it was beyond commonplace for the coins coming out of the mint to not have been minted according to the standards. And it was not uncommon for them to get away with this for quite a while. And yes some would get caught and be punished in various, often horrible ways, including death. But others would get away with it by buying their way out when they got caught, and or as a result of patronage in high places. And some of these cheaters would even become famous, and sought out by other nobles in other areas with their own minting authority, wanting them to come to work for them so they could make all that extra money. Some assayers and mintmasters built entire careers on this premise. There could even be more to this for in some cases there might even be more than one standard in play. A local minting authority for example could be given minting rights by more than one primary minting authority. This scenario would sometimes play out when that local minting authority happened to someplace close to the border for example. And as borders shifted slightly as they often did, or as primary rulers changed, the local could be minting coins under the standards of 2 different entities - and doing so at the same time. And if one of those entities happened to take issue with the coins being substandard, the offender would claim to the guy complaining that what he was perfectly legal because minting coins under the authority of the other guy. In other words he would play both primary authorities off against each other. It was an ingenious scheme, and it worked very well ! There is one more point to be considered whenever we discuss coinage standards. A point that most aren't even aware of, or never think about. And it applies at any particular time period in history. Even though the standard might be 2.93gm in pure silver, or 3.5gm in .986 gold, there were always tolerance levels also applied to those standards. And it was extremely commonplace for those tolerance levels to vary from time to time - as well as the standards themselves varying from time to time. For example, even when the standard by law was .986 gold, with the tolerance applied a coin could be minted of .981 gold and the local merchants and money changers were instructed to accept that coin as being completely legal and perfectly acceptable for use in circulation. So when one considers all of this, and I do mean all of it, that's why the guy in the bazaar would bother about that ! I don't disagree, but it's not something new really, I wrote a paper about it for school over 50 years ago - and it was an old and widely accepted idea even then. Well, I don't hang out in universities any more, in fact I don't hang out period anymore :D But I don't consider it to be a crackpot idea, I consider it to be a near certainty.[/QUOTE]
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