Ancient - How do YOU define Ancient for your collection?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Windchild, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Windchild

    Windchild Punic YN, Shahanshah

    For me, any coin minted after 475 is considered Medieval, bar those issued by the Sassanids (although copies are Medieval), Romans (until the fall of the Western Roman Empire), and the Byzantines (until the fall of Byzantium).
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I consider ancients stop around the time of Charlemagne.
     
  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    To quote myself from another thread:

     
  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    This is the traditional take on the question but I can not accept all those Byzantines as ancient so I'll start medieval with Anastasius' reform. The question is totally artificial based on the prejudices of a time when the only history worth studying was Western European. There may be natural breaks in history but they did not all happen everywhere at the same time. History after High School is not a matter of dates but concepts.
     
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  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    How about this proposal: Medieval coins are crude and sloppily made compared to what preceded them and what followed them. Carefully made (by hand processes) coins from a region before that region got crude are ancient. Carefully made coins (using machines) after the crude period are modern.
     
  7. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight I AM the Senate! Supporter

    Up to 476 AD (491 for Eastern Roman Empire). Also, while I consider early Byzantine and post-Roman Germanic (after 476) officially medieval, I cant help but think of them as kind of ancient also, mainly due to their style.
     
  8. non_cents

    non_cents The Frisco Kid

    I consider anything pre-1400 to be "ancient", IMO.
     
  9. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Maybe we should just call Byzantine coins "transitional" rather that both ancient/medieval
     
  10. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

    To me ancient is pre 478 AD. The fall of the Roman empire. :eek:
     
  11. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Ummm, I could be talked into a few of your arguments for where to put the official "lines in the sand", but selfishly, I merely think of the natural divisions that occur in the "stevex6" coin-collection:

    599-500 BC = 4 coins
    499-400 BC = 26 coins
    399-300 BC = 33 coins
    299-200 BC = 19 coins
    199-100 BC = 27 coins
    99-01 BC = 21 coins
    0-99 AD = 14 coins
    100-199 AD = 16 coins
    200-299 AD = 31 coins
    300-399 AD = 16 coins

    400-499 AD = 1 coin
    500-599 AD = 2 coins
    600-699 AD = 4 coins

    700-799 AD =
    800-899 AD =
    900-999 AD =
    1000-1099 AD =
    1100-1199 AD =
    1200-1299 AD = 1 coin
    1300-1399 AD =
    1400-1499 AD =
    1500-1599 AD = 1 coin
    1600-1699 AD =
    1700-1799 AD =

    1800-1899 AD = +200 coins
    1900-1999 AD = +200 coins
    2000-2013 AD = +200 coins

    => so ummm, there is certainly a drop-off after 399 AD, followed by a plateau-period between 400-699 AD (a total of 7 coins) ...

    => during following '1100 years' I only have 2 measely coins!! (700-1799 AD) ...

    => then after 1800 AD (Dominion of Canada is formed) my collection sky-rockets!!

    So you dudes can call 'em as ya see 'em, but these seem to be the boundaries in "my world" (wow, that was kinda fun/interesting)

    ;)
     
  12. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Call me crazy, but, believe it or not, you make sense.
     
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  13. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    => Ahaha yah, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while, eh?!!
     
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  14. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    anything minted pre 1500 goes in with my ancients, anything minted post 1500 goes with my moderns...if i ever get acoin minted in 1500, i'll flip that coin, heads it will go with the ancients, tails it will go with the moderns. ;)
     
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  15. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hey experts (Doug?) ... ummm, where does this coin fit in the "coin-world"?

    ... is this coin hand-made, or machine made? (man, I love this coin!!)

    Seljuqs of Rum, Kaykhusraw II
    Silver Dirham
    Konya Mint
    1241-1242 A.D. (AH639)
    Diameter: 23 mm
    Weight: 2.9 grams
    Obverse: Sun and Lion
    Reverse:
    Other: A-1218 … SLJQ-503


    seljuqsa.JPG seljuqsb.JPG
     
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  16. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    I have played with the idea of assigning dates to ancient, medieval and modern but that doesn't work. I thought ancients would end with the first milled coinage, but that didn't happen overnight as hammer coins were made after some milled coins.

    So if it doesn't "look" like a coin I would get in circulation complete with a date, mint mark and nation on it then its ancient.
     
  17. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    My view is there cannot be a uniform date. As Eurocentric as we try to be, the world "did not end" with the fall of western Rome to the Ostrogoths. Most of the world did not even notice.

    For mediterranean coinage, I agree Anastasius' reform is as good as any for a delineation. For the middle east, I use the rise of Islam as the demarcation, and for Chinese I use the reunification of China under the Tang as the cutoff point. I think these three are all justifiable. In fact, the cutoff between ancient and medieval to me is much easier than the cutoff between medieval and modern. Some say machine presses, yet that is another Eurocentric idea in my mind.
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter


    This is such an anomaly. In most respects it is a standard Islamic hammered silver coin but the king, as I understand the story, honored his Christian wife with a coin type that would not have been acceptable in most Islamic lands. I believe I also recall that she later converted to Islam and the pictorial coins were ended. I am happy to have mine also but I have not learned to read the dating and mint information.
    ow9200bb2561.jpg
     
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