Ancient Greek Forged Coin Battles it Out in Chicago Court

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by mrbrklyn, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

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  3. Urban_Lawyer

    Urban_Lawyer Half dollar nerd

    Yikes, Harlan Berk's lawyer in the case is currently being investigated by the Illinois state bar for fraud and failure to refund unearned fees. Hope he doesn't get hosed for a second time.
     
  4. areich

    areich America*s Darling

    This is a sorry story that should not have happen. Where were the experts to bring a consensus on the authenticity of this coin prior to it reaching the market?
     
  5. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    There is none because the players invovled aren't more concerned about the integrety of the coins more than their own profits.
     
  6. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    I disagree with you both Ruben and Amanda. In many cases, in ancient coins there is not definitive proof one way or the other, but you can have some experts in one camp, and some in the other on certain coins. IDK what level of proof there is, or believed to be, in this particular case, but I was just chiming in that its not usually black and white. Similarly antiquities sometimes are split on expert opinions on genuineness.

    Evidently it must have been a really good fake, if it were fake, since Harlan employs some of the best experts in the world to verify coins for his firm.
     
  7. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Consensus doesn't produce a black and white answers, but is a discussion that lays out issues in which decisions can be made. That is still missing.
     
  8. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    What, you want a formal inquiry to have to be convened before any ancient coin can be sold Ruben? Who would be responsible for paying for that then? Who would be the organization deciding when its warranted?

    This is not academia where there is unlimited budgets and time for such crud. This is real business, with competition for consignments, sales, customers, etc. No dealer in the world worth their salt would agree to such things. Dealers have experts, buyers have experts, and there are independent experts who freelance. Between all of that the truth usually wins out eventually, and any bad coins are suppoed to go back to the selling dealer. Its a cost of doing business.

    This is why I would be interested in the proof in this case as to why they believe its a fake, and leading experts opinions. If it is proven to be false, and Antiqua does not accept the return, their reputation is done in the ancient field.
     
  9. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    One of that value, yeah. And the others as well. You have a situation where, for example, the third party graders mark coins as not genune whether they think it is actually or isn't for fear of being wrong. What is needed is an honest and open opinion with its reasoning. When you get several experts around something, a consensus developes and the issues are flushed out.
     
  10. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    You don't think numerous experts had not already looked at this coin? Harlan Berk himself is a published author on ancients, he employs others arguably more qualified than him. Also, the coin was for sale, so other experts like David Sear and many others had looked at it as well. If a coin is demonstably false word quickly gets around, and its withdrawn from sale usually. What happened here must be an excellent fake that fooled a lot of experts for a long time. Eventually someone proved to Harlan's satisfaction it must be fake, Harlan did the right thing and refunded his customer's money, its Antiqua who is not refunding the money. Evidently Antiqua is not convinced its a fake.

    This has happened with antiquities all of the time, they sit in museum collections for decades before anyone finds out they are false. No "special expert panel" will ever change that. Its the nature of the hobby. This is why you buy coins of high dollar from reputable dealers, they provide you lifetime return privileges if a coin is ever proved false. Mr. berk has done just that, so the collector who bought this piece got their refund. I bet they are glad they didn't buy it off Ebay.......
     
  11. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    I know the trail on this coin to where it managed to get into the auction where it drew a lot of attention and was determined to be a forgery. It was the prize of said auction in all the catalogs etc until it got pulled suddenly and disappeared like it had never existed - except in the printed catalog.

    As for me, I think I would rather spend my dosh on the GMM copy of this - that way I can play with it.
     
  12. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Are we talking about the dekadrachm that was withdrawn from the CICF sale last spring?
     
  13. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    Yup.
     
  14. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    Oh, I didn't realize he bought that coin from Antiqua, I thought he bought it in Germany direct. Isn't that the coin they believe was reengraved below the field line? That is the last I heard about the issue.

    Btw, the original story is VERY silly for simply mentioning Harlan Berk as a Chicago area man, and not as one of the largest ancient coin dealers in the US. Kind of changes the nuance of the story, huh? :)
     
  15. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    They are a large dealer, curiously I have never dealt with them - perhaps a certain feeling about them. 'Nuf said.
     
  16. areich

    areich America*s Darling

    Antiqua or Berk?
     
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