ancient coins

Bert, I haven't concluded anything on the subject of "Phanes", I merely quoted a world renown numismatist, Harlan Berk, in my original post. On the other hand your explanation of "Phanes" seems to have nothing to do with the coin posted. What is the meaning of the stag depicted on the coin? What about the translation of the inscription "I am the badge of Phanes"? Isn't it possible that the source who had this coin made had the name Phanes? Mythology & reality are two different things...

 

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I have the type, also a 1/12 Stater from CNG. Still looking for a 1/24 Stater
Here is the EL version of 1/12 Stater ND Sardes Mint
Walwet circa 600BC
I really think these are way overpriced, considering how many appear in auctions.

 

Do you have a link to your actual 1/6th stater? There's a wide range in these coins and I certainly hope you didn't buy the Triton coin you showed which was part of a bidding war between Japanese investor types and sold for > $50K which is vastly overpriced.

 

Panzerman...

I really don't understand why you frequently post a picture of a coin and tell us it is your coin when it is most certainly not your coin! Don't you realize how easy it is to do an image search, whether of a coin, a dog, a snowmobile rider, or any image?

The 1/6th stater you showed was sold in Triton XXI and it was not purchased by you.

If your intent is to show a nice example of a coin similar to one you own, you should make clear to all that the coin you are showing is not your coin and provide a source or link to the coin you are showing.

 

AJ. I got the type (1/6 Stater from the CNA show back in 2000) from a Toronto coin dealer. Price was a fraction back then....

 

Does this predate sun worship?

 

If they aren't carbon dated how do you know its not a counterfeit?

 

Coins, and any other inorganic material, can't be radiocarbon dated. They're authenticated in the same way that sculptures, paintings, minerals, cars, etc. are: chemical/XRF analysis and expert comparisons to other known genuine examples.

 

Just to clarify, the sphinx and pyramids are contemporary:
Great pyramid- "Archaeologists believe Egypt's large pyramids are the work of the Old Kingdom society that rose to prominence in the Nile Valley after 3000 B.C. Historical analysis tells us that the Egyptians built the Giza Pyramids in a span of 85 years between 2589 and 2504 BC."
Sphinx-"It is the oldest known monumental sculpture in Egypt and is commonly believed to have been built by ancient Egyptians of the Old Kingdomduring the reign of the Pharaoh Khafre (c. 2558–2532 BC).[4]"
Both borrowed from wiki. What did I ever do without her?

 

Granted neither of us was there, but I've never seen anything remotely close to this date for the Sphinx. I don't think any informed Egyptologist would make this claim; even Indiana Jones would roll his eyes.

Phil Davis

 

An expert's intuitive grasp is more reliable than so-called "scientific" measurements. I am reading Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. It opens with the Getty Museum being swindled for $10 million by a fake statue that passed scientific examination, even though experts literally shuddered when they saw it. Numismatics has similar stories such as the Bulgarian forgeries of Istos coins from just 20 years ago. They also passed spectrographic analysis before everyone just up and finally admitted that they were fakes because after all they looked fake.

 

You got a lot of good replies. Just to note, however, the most recent research says that people did not evolve money from barter and they did not barter for economic exchange. It really begins with ritual gift exchange as social bonding, both to establish and maintain status.

Yes, the word "salary" come from the word for "salt" and yes we say that a good man is worth his salt and good people are salt of the Earth. That said, we must be cautious when projecting the present onto the past.

The invention of coinage was a singular event. Future contracts existed thousands of years before the first coin. In fact, inventories that led to futures contracts are the origins of writing.
https://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/10/accounting-for-civilization.html

 

That's right! Fred Flintstone did not count to 10. He counted "1, 2, Many" until about 5000 BCE when larger numbers were invented.

As for China, yes, they may have had monetary items like knives and spades and cowerie shells from about 1200 BCE. Still, it is relatively recent, and did not travel all over the world. China was a world of its own for thousands of years. So, its histories are different than the West's.

 

(1) We do not know. That is the easy answer. Often, we just project ourselves onto the past. Even today, most people believe that barter in farm good led to precious metals as money which led to coinage. That is not the case.

(2) It may be the Lion and the Bull represent times of the year, as they are two constellations that actually look almost like what they are supposed to be, them and the Scorpion and Orion...

(3) What coins mention Babylon?

(4) Yes you are correct: There were no state-run militaries as we understand them. Wars were fought once the crops were in so that all the guys could leave the farms. The Greeks invented the hoplite style of fighting. They invented dressed lines. They were highly valued as mercenaries from about 650-600 BCE when coins were invented, along with philosophy and democracy. The century from then to 550-500 BCE was a heady time.

 

Actually the Assyrians had professional armies from 1800BC to their fall in 612BC. This made them the supreme military power during that period in the Middle East.
John

 

@kaparthy would be valid only on the 1st 3 points and not the 4th if the question were geared to the world.
Jump to The Old Kingdom (2686–2181 BC) · As early as the Old Kingdom (c.2686-2160 BC) Egypt used specific military units, with military hierarchy appearing in the Middle Kingdom (c.2055-1650 BC). Borrowed from wiki.
They even had a well documented battle with the Hightities, as I recall
Buuuuut the question is read as being specific to the Greeks. In which case he it's absolutely correct. 4 for 4 brah. Niiiiiice points!

 

Spewed my tea THROUGH my nose!!! ROFLMAO

Ummm... Hittites...



Hittite Steatite Head of a Man Amulet 2nd Millennium BCE 15 x 20 mm Intact front-Side
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites

These were the guys that Rameses II fought at the Battle of Kadesh... Rameses told everyone HE won, as the Hittites stated THEY won. Lotta dumb mistakes from Rameses II side, but I understand it was really a draw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kadesh


Egypt Scarab RAMESSES II cartouche 19th Dyn 1292-1189 BCE winged uraeus cobra 4.1g 19mm Gustave Mustaki collection acquired from Egypt in 1948

LOL , love it @Ryro ! EPIC misspelling!

 

Ryro said: ↑
battle with the Hightities,

Alegandron said:
Ummm... Hittites...

An Epic Battle!

 

I can NOT stop laughing!

 

Al, your quotation of a world renown numismatic is fine - did she teach you anything at all about Phanes ? I doubt it. Meaning of the stag. Time for you to make suggestions, not just expecting someone else to hand it to you on a plate. Then you suggest that the creator of the coin had the name Phanes. Could be. Just as many are called Alexander after Alexander the Great. For you, mythology and reality are two different things. Not for me, nor for the ancients. Don't you know that imagination and intuition are crucial in research ? Lacking such qualities is a deprivation !