Ancient coinage and environment

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    I went back through my Carthage coins, and realized that I have the Undertype to my Overstruck Mercernary / Libyan coin I showed above...

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    Carthage Zeugitania Libyan Revolt AR Shekel 24mm 7.34g 241-238 BCE Wreathed Tanit Horse stndg control mark and Punic M SNG Cop 236
     
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  3. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    Sorry to disappoint you, but no jokes here. Only and always serious stuff on CT.
     
  4. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Coins are the most recycled commodity on this planet. Even that FDC aureus probably was made from melted down older aurei/ or Celtic AV Staters/ its been that way from first Lydian/ Ionia Electrum coinage. Think of the billions of gold coins that ended up in the melting pot. Some of the first Australian Sovereigns that are in collections, might be originals, since gold was discovered there in 1850s. Same for San Francisco Mint AV Double Eagles 1857-S Central America wreck, those are definately all originals from gold rush miners.
    This is one 100 percent original.
    AV Dollar
    California Gold
    These where private issues/ illegally produced in California from gold dust
    This one was a late issue/ shut down that same year by the Feds. lf (88).jpg lf (89).jpg
     
  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    @Alegandron and @Roman Collector... thank you very much for the compliments :shy:. It made me feel so good :).

    Recycled Byzantines are common:

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    Romanus IV Diogenes, 1068-1071

    AE Follis
    10.57 g
    Constantinople
    Obv: IC-XC over NI-KA to left and right of bust of Christ facing, dotted cross behind head, wearing pallium and colobium, holding book of Gospels with both hands
    Rev: C-R P-Δ in the four angles of a cross with globe and two dots at each extremity, X in the centre.
    Ref: Sear 1866, DO-8

    A recent purchase I haven't yet photographed (Sev's images are good enough to make me lazy :D). An ex-Doug coin; attribution and writeup per AMCC/@Severus Alexander:
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    Heraclius (610-641) overstruck on Maurice Tiberius.
    AE Follis, Constantinople. 10.58g, 30mm.
    Overtype: Year 5=614-615, officina B.
    Obv: dd NN hERACLIUS ET hERA CONST PP A, Heraclius, bearded on left, and Heraclius Constantine on right, stand facing, each wears a crown and chlamys and holding globus cruciger, cross between their heads
    Rev: Large M, ANNO to left, Ч to right, B below, CON in ex.
    SB 805
    Undertype: Maurice Tiberius (582-602), Year 15=596/7.
    Obv: D N mAVRIC TIb PP AVG, helmeted and cuirassed bust of Maurice Tiberius facing holding globus cruciger and shield
    Rev: Large M between A/N/N/O on left and X/Ч on right; above, cross; beneath, Δ(?); CON in exergue.
    SB 494.
    From the Doug Smith collection, acquired in 2015 from Belmont.

    This coin was produced near the lowest point in the wars besetting the Byzantine empire under Heraclius. The Persians captured Jerusalem in 614 (taking the alleged True Cross) and the Slavs and Avars overran the Balkans in 615. We are told that Heraclius was a hair’s breadth away from conceding sovereignty to Khusru II. The mayhem is evident from the poor production quality of the coinage, as in this example.

    Another new acquisition hot mess, also borrowing AMCC/Sev's images and attribution:

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    BOEOTIA, Federal coinage, c. 220s BCE under Antigonos III Doson
    AE18. Overstruck on Antigonos Gonatas, 277-239 BCE. 2.74g, 17mm.
    Obv: Head of Demeter or Kore facing slightly right. Undertype: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion skin.
    Rev: ΒΟΙΩΤΩΝ, Poseidon standing left, foot set on rock, holding trident. Undertype: B - A, Horseman right, ANTI monogram below.
    BCD Boiotia 100-109; Undertype: SNG Cop 1214-21.
    Very clear undertype, including the Antiogonos monogram. The dating of these coins, which are normally found overstruck, follows E. Vlachogianni, "A hoard of coins from Thebes," NomKhron 19 (2000), pp. 55-113. This places it squarely within the reign of Antigonos III Doson, who is otherwise difficult to represent numismatically in bronze. Antigonos III led Macedon’s last resurgence before its final defeat (to the Romans) under Philip V and Perseus
     
  6. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    Antoninus Pius sestertius recycled into a Postumus double sestertius. Double the value for the same amount of metal!

    Postumus overstruck double sestertius01362q00.jpg
    POSTUMUS
    AE Double Sestertius. 21.88g, 32.6mm. Cologne mint, AD 261. RIC 169; Bastien 101-2. O: [IMP C M CASS LAT PO]STVMVS P F AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of Postumus to right. R: [VICTORI]A AVG, Victory advancing left, holding wreath in her right hand and palm in her left; captive seated to left before here.
    Notes: Overstruck on a sestertius of Antoninus Pius, with part of the original legend and the back of Pius's head visible on the obverse.
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I had too many.
    rz0340bb1171.jpg rz0335fd2410.jpg
     
  8. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

  9. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    While it's less interesting to look at, there's some interesting stories about the metal itself, too. I don't know what proportion of coins were made out of virgin material, but lots of ancient coins have been melted down to make other coins. We'll never know most of there stories, but there are some exceptions.

    Supposedly the first denarius issues were struck on silver from melted down Syracuse silvers during the Second Punic War. Of course, lots of Syracuse bronzes were overstruck by the Romans at the same time.

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    Anonymous 2nd Punic War Denarius, After 211 BC, Brinkman Group 6

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    Anonymous AE Sextans, overstruck on coin of Hiero II

    This one isn't quite ancient, but it's got a good story. In the late 1500s, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, the successor of Oda Nobunaga and the first person to rule (more or less) a unified Japan, confiscated weapons belonging to the non-samurai populace. The weapons were melted down and in 1588 the metal collected from that project was used to create a massive bronze Buddha statue (Daibutsu) at Hoko-Ji Temple in Kyoto. The temple and the Buddha were destroyed soon thereafter in an earthquake, and in 1668 Tokugawa Ietsuna, the Shogun at the time, had the remnants of the statue melted down and used to make these coins, commonly known as bun-sen.

    Japan Bun Kan ei Tsuho.png
    Kanei Tsuho, Kameido Mint (Near Edo/Tokyo), 1668
    Obverse:
    Kan Ei Tsu Ho
    Reverse: Bun
     
  10. akeady

    akeady Well-Known Member

    Here are some Roman bronzes with somewhat recognisable Sicilian undertypes, like @SeptimusT's above:

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    [​IMG]

    ATB,
    Aidan.
     
  11. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    What a wonderful thread! Here are some that really "struck" me: the OP and Doug's similar Carausius-over-Victorinus, @Alegandron's famous Libyan one, Doug's famous Byzantine-over-Gordian, @zumbly's re-used A Pi, and @rrdenarius's new coin. I'd love to get a Rome-over-Syracuse, and what a great story about the bun-sen, @SeptimusT!

    Here are a few of my favourite overstrikes:

    872909.jpg
    Vandal imitation of Honorius overstruck on an official SALVS REIPVBLICAE AE4 (this is my newest one)


    Screen Shot 2020-01-21 at 6.49.39 PM.jpg
    Tiberius III (scarce) over Leontius (rare)


    Screen Shot 2020-01-21 at 6.50.01 PM.jpg
    Syrian-mint Sassanian imitation of a Heraclius follis overstruck on an official Anastasius follis


    Screen Shot 2020-01-21 at 6.50.16 PM.jpg
    A home-made religious token, made by striking a cross over top of an official Constans VLPP


    Screen Shot 2020-01-21 at 6.51.36 PM.jpg
    Zengid: Badr al-Din Lu'lu (1233-1259) overstruck on an earlier coin of his. (I like how the legend is visible on the obverse head.)


    Another sort of recycling I like is when the Byzantines used old coins as weights (or some think these are "gaming tokens" - in this case the weight's just right for a solidus, though):
    4480539.jpg
     
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