An opinion and some free advice

Actually, I said nothing and only posted a link, but please allow me to explain the obvious:

-Guy buys coins.

- Guy becomes instant expert and values the collection at well over four times what he claims to have paid.

-Guy takes said collection to eight dealers expecting offers based on straight Red Book.

-Dealers offer prices that, in his three days experience, he believes insultingly low, so…

-Guy starts thread on coin forum to complain about lowlife dealers making lowball offers, but ignores the fact that by his own admission, he acquired the coins by doing the very same thing that he now condemns others for.

By definition, this is hypocrisy, but if posting a link that defines fact found in your own words is calling you “names”, I am guilty as charged.

I am not "butt-hurt" over your blind refusal to see the big picture, sir, and it is not I who may suffer because of it. Failing to recognize the fact that opening a book, no matter how fine a book it may be, does not make one an expert only shows how little you understand and how much you have left to learn. But no… it appears that you think the fools are those of us who, when learning to grade, wasted years of our lives and examined thousands upon thousands of coins even though a few hours with the very book most of us have long had is all that we really needed. Also, the ANA is not the oldest "coin association" in the country, but I digress.

Yes… an honest and sincere attempt to help you understand that there very well may be valid reasons for the offers you claim to have received. Again, I didn't “call” you anything, but did make a simple deduction based on a rather questionable aspect of your diatribe – see the above for clarification.

How kind of you and how foolish of me not to have realized that pointing out an example of hypocrisy, and directly calling BarFly a hypocrite are not one in the same. Based on your generous, brilliant, and surely professional deduction, once this response is posted, I shall walk downstairs and ask my wife – a doctor of psychology – for the help I clearly and so dearly need. Perhaps she can have me committed.

Let's be honest here... the reason for your ridiculous tirade is not because you were unjustly insulted by the link I posted, but that based on your own words and admissions, it is the truth, and all this deflection stems from the fact that I dared to say what at least some here were surely thinking.

Your sanctimoniousness is very unbecoming, sir.

 

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It is obvious that your attempts to sell this collection have been very frustrating for you, but I doubt many people are going to want to help you if you take those frustrations out on members of the forum.

Rather than sell the collection to a dealer, why don't you seek out an online dealer who will auction your collection piece by piece and charge you a consignment fee for their trouble. That way, you will be assured that each coin is sold for market value and that only the auction transaction costs and consignment fees are deducted from the sale price. I think that if you achieve 70% of hammer, that would be a good price. Certainly better than the 10% that dealers have been offering you to date.

Now for the bad news. If your collection is full of hundreds of low value low grade coins, it may be very difficult to find anyone interested in offering their consignment services. The reason is much the same that many of the B&M dealers have been offering you 10% of book value. You see, it doesn't matter what value any book or guide says, if nobody comes into the store looking for those coins, they will sit there for a very long time. For example, I don't know a single person who collects 20 cent pieces, and I know a lot of coin collectors. So while you may think your 20 cent pieces are worth what the price guide says, the dealer may know that nobody collects them, or he may have an abundance of inventory in that type of coin already.

In the end, time is money. I buy and sell coins online and if I don't think I can make at least $20 per coin, I don't buy the coin. It just isn't worth my time.

 

That's it, ban BooksB4Coins immediately for making me read that much...

 

I think that we need to see some pictures of these coins before we can conclusively say if you were lowballed. Coin grading isn't something you can pick up in a few days or even months and a lot of people fail to take into account cleaning, corrosion, and other problems that often decimate a coins value.

 

Maybe you could get some advice from the woman you bought them from? Sounds like she knows how to move some unwanted coins.

 

I think now is the time for you and your father to spend some more time together. Honestly I believe if you were offered a 1.15 for 1872 IHC then that dealer was not very honest. At the same time some of these key day coins you might want to get graded - this gives you the opportunity to test your grading skills against the TPC. Some of these will sell quicker that way. Sounds like a few of them are worth the investment.

I can tell you how my LCS works - they always offer back of melt. But it is a fixed price - just like if they sell. Last time I asked it was they sell at melt + $1.50 and believe they were buying the same way. Now I know they offer good prices because one person in the store was selling something like 10 to 15 100oz bars of silver. He told me where I could buy a few cents cheaper and my LCS pays better than the other shop. Of course I can't afford that much silver. But he routinely buys at one shop and sells at my LCS.

Now if you take in a bag of Wheaties they will not sort them, but will pay like 3 cents each for them. Now if you have something special you might want to pull it out. Now when I go down I never take everything at once when selling - so if I have 20 to 30 coins I might only take 10. Then reason being, if they are busy I might not get as much attention - plus the owner usually offers a little more when he is in. They look at them, get a grade then make me an offer based off grey sheet. On only 1 or 2 coins did I really disagree with - but one was a bad buy on my part. The offers have always been fair. I know you want to sell them all at once, but it might be better to take your time when selling.

I would say - don't be in a rush to sell. Take your time and do it right. If they were graded coins I could make some other recommendations, but raw is always a toss up. And I really can't say without seeing some of the coins on what is fair offers. Just my humble opinion.

 

I swear, sometimes I hate the Red Book with fiery passion -- and especially it's nickname, "The Coin Collector's Bible".

(1) No one in any industry anywhere is going to pay you "full retail" for your product. Not cars, not collectibles, not real estate, nothing. This is what dealers will ideally sell their product for, and even that's a laughable fantasy. "Retail" doesn't really exist in the age of the internet.
(2) If you are reading a 2013 Red Book, that book was probably written in mid 2011 and started printing mid 2012. I'm making up the numbers, I don't know how early it goes into production, but I do know that we've had 2014 redbooks in our shop since at least late summer.
(3) Coins represent little investments in a very fluid and ever changing market. Expect things to change, and don't demand a retail price that was probably set in print 1.5 years ago.
(4) I'm not even going to touch the father and son grading bit (which is likely wildly overestimated, but let's assume it's not), but I will say this: Don't haul the entire collection around with you. Most of what you think is junk, is junk. The type of coin dealer who would want your junk is not likely to be the type who is going to be able to pay top dollar for your legit coins. Pull out the gems, the real valuable ones, and shop/research those. Take them to 10 dealers. Hell, take them to 50. If you're sure all dealers are crooks, try a PNG dealer.

(5) But really, if you think you've got some true gems, take them to dealers, and let them know you're not interested in selling. Ask if it's worth it to have them graded. The dealer now has "no reason to lie to you", he's not gonna get his claws on it. Certify ones that are worth it. Now there's no dickering. Sell. Game over man, game over.

 

This thread cost me 15 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

[sighs.]

 

Think of them as the last 15 when you'll be spoon fed apple sauce while some has to change your depends. Not worth living through that really.

 

Ouch! You could be in the dog house with 33% of CT's members after that comment. That is prime coin collecting time for many, keeps them sharp enough and chewing the apple sauce.

 

I dunno ... I haven't been here that long ... yet ... doesn't seem out of the realm of possibilities. Not to mention that you put words into his mouth. That is not what he said.

 

He put a lifetime into numismatics, beginning as a runner for coin stores when he was a child. He also was one of the biggest crooks in the hobby, which everyone knows, selling fakes, even to the Smithsonian. He also pursued material that no one else was interested in at the time, such as Presidential Indian Peace Medals. Everyone likes Buffalo Nickels and Seated Quarters and Indianhead Cents. Ford collected what no one else did. He lived, ate, and breathed numismatics. So, his lifetime collection sold for $60 million -- after he died. In fact, Ford took huge losses over market estimates to unload enough material to pay for his wife's cancer treatments: distressed sale = depressed prices.

Numismatics is more like a Turkish bazaar than it is like the New York Stock Exchange. Every deal is different. No two people get the same price for the same item. That is the economic reality of laissez faire economics and an individualist culture. It is a fallacy to think that looking up items in a chart and multiplying by a factor will give you a general market price - it does not work that way for carriage bolts, OP-Amps, or prosthetic limbs, or anything else.

As for evil people and good people, numismatics has its share of nice guys as collectors and dealers, as do brain surgery, pet grooming, and pizza delivery. But there are no Santa Clauses.

I agree that you will get the most for your coins if you sell them yourself to other collectors -- with all the attendant headaches of that.

 

I neither buy nor sell; and I do not collect. I am a researcher, writer, and reporter. So, my appraisals are at once accurate and not self-interested. An appraisal is not the same thing as an offer to buy. For instance, your home has an appraised value for fire insurance, which is based on the assumption that no fire department will ever lose the foundation. That is not the "state equalized value" or what an agent will get or what you would get if you sold it yourself - if you sold it immediately or if you waited three years to get your price.

You call them "appraisals" but they are really "evaluations" - your evaluation for your purchase here and now.

 

You're preaching to the choir Mike. This guy (OP) is gone.....

 

'An appraisal is not the same thing as an offer to buy' ... yet that would lend a lot of realistic instantaneous credibility, don't you think?

I wish real estate appraisals were required to be backed by simultaneous offers to buy, that would help me a lot

 

To where?

 

It is funny though... he most likely has a couple of key date coins and the rest is common junk... I did it, I think we've all did it to some degree. Shoot, when I started a guy in North Carolina had me thinkin' he was selling me MS63-MS65 Morgans for $40-$90 and I thought I was making a fortune! They all were common sliders (at best) Live and learn.

 

We don't (or at least I do not) have the specifics on the particular coins, therefore speculation serves no purpose.

He did say that the son of the SOB offered him (or was making a tally sheet to that effect) realistic prices based on what it was.

 

Really all of this serves no purpose, as he didn't say what he had. You're right, I got suckered in... should have known better (even as I read through the whole thread)

 

Coming from you, I can only take that as a compliment.