An opinion and some free advice

Well, I had this notion in my head that if I sold the collection all together, I could realize the most value for it and avoid having a bunch of coins sitting around in a drawer that were too valuable to throw away but that nobody wanted. It's counter-intuitive, but your advice and the feedback of a lot of others in this thread suggests otherwise. It's going to be a project in and of itself to do the necessary steps to put it all up for sale online. I'll look into it when time and inclination allows.

I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks to all.

 

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Well, it's been fun and I have learned a bunch. So that part of it is certainly true.

 

Wow. Thanks for those numbers. I appreciate the candor. I realize that the dealers have overhead and they deserve a profit for their time and efforts. The part that frustrates me is the consistent offers of 10% or less of book value. That's just plain thieving.

 

Yeah. If there wasn't a uniformed cop as a security guard, I was thinking seriously about coming over his counter.

 

The coin in question was an 1872 IHC in VG condition. Red book at $170.

 

and in my opinion not seeing the coin in hand a fair offer would be $65 and then you mark it $125 and take $100 and you sell enough and you pay the bills an offer of $1.15 is just plain insulting I'm in the business of selling antiques and make a living at it I do sell a few coins too but mostly just collect when I'm making an offer I usually factor in what can I get and what would I have to pay at auction and usually offer about what I'd pay to resell at auction

 

wow that was a jerk dealer. you are better off selling to coin collectors. I have bought coins off people here on CT. great deals too. it all depends on the coins you are selling. there grade, rarity, and eye appeal. you should never expect to get retail prices ever. dealers need to make money on the coins so there offers will be from 10-60% lower than retail. it takes time to find fair/great dealers. I have found my share off bad ones at coin shows in Las Vegas. and I have found some that I buy from all the time that give me discounts if I buy from them ever time I go there. do NOT be afraid to ask for a discount if you buy $200-500 dollars worth from them. it's been 3 years since I went to my last coin show in Vegas. not that I have not wanted to go... it was a debt problem getting in the way. my new way of buying coins is... if it's a lot of money for a coin... it has to have amazing eye appeal. and ask myself would many other people want this coin in the future should I choose to ever sell it ??? it takes a long time to find good dealers. If you want to make money at selling coins it takes any where from 10-30 years for some coins to rise in value. some coins obviously bring more money than others. I wish you better luck out there. over time you will find better dealers out there. you might also ask to do some trading for your coins. I know 1 dealer in the Vegas coin shows that likes trading for his coins. yes it might be more coins than you want to trade, but in the end you did not spend money getting new coins.

 

That you've been to, perhaps, but eight dealers, while a decent sampling, does not make everything you've said/implied fact. You need to realize that not all dealers want to or can deal with all coins. Let's use the Anthony variety you mentioned as an example: I would not have offered to buy it, and I know many others who feel the same way. It is a variety in a very unpopular series, so unless one is an ebay seller and/or specializes in such coins, you cannot expect them to want to buy, offer what may be a fair wholesale price if sold in a retail market, or even believe that the coin has anywhere near the claimed value. This is somewhat similar to graded bullion as there are many dealers who will not pay slabbed premiums. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've declined to make offers on such coins just for the simple fact that if I did, the person would almost certainly have taken it as an insult. I do not deny that graded bullion can and does carry sometimes significant premiums, but since I don't have a clientele interested in them, they are simply not worth it to me. The point here is market: not every dealer can or wishes to sell every type/grade/condition/variety of coin that if offered them, and even if they do, they may be slow movers or be up to their neck in similar coins, etc, etc. There are many reasons for what some see as lowball offers that have nothing to do with the dealer trying to pull a fast one or rip someone off.

Another thing you need to consider is this: is your father's grading correct/acceptable, and do the coins truly possess the value you seem to think? Trying to grade by ANA guide is fine and dandy, but there is a lot more to grading that simply using that book and trying to match conditions to descriptions. I clearly do not know your father, and am in no way trying to question his abilities, but this is something you need to ask and answer for yourself. As for value, you mentioned using the red book and if placing any real weight into the listed prices, this was most certainly was a mistake as it is generally a poor value reference and often overvalues many of the more common/plentiful types, even if properly graded. As for the CDN, it too is not a bible of coin values; if any dealer paid straight bid for any coin that walked in the door, they soon would be buried in unprofitable widgets. My point here is that no guide can realistically place a value on all coins, and this is true even if it was not necessary to judge every coin individually on its merits. flaws, etc.

Perhaps these dealers were of the type that try to scrounge out every cent possible when buying, but without seeing the coins, I don't know. However, there are other things and factors that you should have considered before you jump to conclusions from what appears to be your first venture into selling coins with collectible value.

 

Well, that just explains everything. I'm going to write a letter to the ANA and tell them that their book, with it's objectively identifiable criteria, clear standards, and examples of every grade is FUBAR. I'm going to tell them that BooksB4Coins over at the Coin Talk forum has it all figured out and that they need to come over here and talk to you so you can explain to them how grading a coin should be done. That way, poor hapless schmoos like me won't be confused by their grading system about the "true" grading of a coin.

 

You see, for many of us this is a hobby. We don't waste our time trying to sell to dealers. I make a point of going to as few shows as possible (sometimes you go for a friend). I don't focus on the business and deal side of the hobby. I'm in it for the QUALITY TIME, as you mentioned very briefly. You should just stop there. Who cares what you bought the coins for from that lady and what you can get for them in some fictitious book. Really, you want ANACS grades on your coins? I just don't get it.

I don't know of anything at the moment that is a good store of value. Maybe art, if you pay through the teeth for it. You want to be an investor, don't dabble in coins. Your approach to the hobby SUCKS. Keep it up and you'll end up a winner like Henry Chinaski.

Good luck!

 

Does it seem to anybody else that we all seem compelled to draw each other into passive-aggressive online arguments way too much on CT these days?

 

This is very good advice. There are obviously multiple sides and layers to this onion. Attitude is everything and focusing on the most appealing parts will increase ones enjoyment.

 

You see, and it is in this grey area where the angles lie. I just don't get a warm fuzzy about it. My con man radar just goes bonkers when thinking about that. In the most obvious case, a dealer is going to talk down a coin when buying and talk up a coin when selling. The guys at the grading services are going to try to dominate the market by upgrading the coins they get to grade and passing out favors in the form of biased grading for people who send them a lot of specimens. This doesn't even go into the angles of about destroying coins in order to limit the supply of high grade specimens that they have already certified. It would be just too easy to take someone for a ride who was looking into a coin as an "investment." Given the number of bad actors I've already encountered in this particular "profession," I'm strongly incentivized to avoid the business aspects as much as possible. That is, avoid dealers like a lot of advice in this thread suggests.

I do appreciate the input, even though it may not sound like it from my response.

And books did call me names.

 

One thing you'll learn quickly in any collecting market is never sell to a dealer. Why? Because you're paying for his time, showroom/store, advertising, employee salaries, utilities and so on. If he buys at retail and sells at retail, how's he making a living? So, he buys low and sells high to pay for the business. You can't blame a dealer for wanting to keep the lights on while you're trying in the same breath to get 100% of retail prices when you aren't yourself a dealer.

 

As to the investment end I remember in 1979 when that specimen strike 1794 $1 was for sale for $150k it just brought over 10 million and I remember common but problem free $20 gold pieces for $400 a piece kicking myself major for not buying them the only truly bad investment is overpriced coins and problem coins but overall I get far more enjoyment out of collecting than worrying about how much my coins are worth

 

I did no such thing, sir. If you do not like or want to hear what I am telling you, that's fine, but this is no reason to resort to baseless accusations and ridiculously smarmy responses.

If you think that you, after openly admitting that "most of your knowledge has come from investigating this collection", and investing "20 hours total" into grading and researching the coins, are now qualified to judge not only every dealer, but this business is general, that's your call. Again, I am not saying that these dealers were being reasonable, or that they were not lowballing because I don't know, but what I do is that I've had more than my fill of three day experts who know all that there is to know and refuse to even consider the opinions of others unless it is exactly what they want to hear. My previous comments were both honest and sincere, and intended to possibly help you, but if you wish to dismiss my efforts, fine. I wish you the best of luck with your coins, sir, no matter how you chose to sell them.

 

Yes you did, Books, yes you did. You made a post calling me a hypocrite. So when I say I'll believe the handbook published by the oldest coin association in the country over what you have to say, now you're all butt-hurt. I am not going to let you get away with doing something and then saying you didn't.

Like when you called me a hypocrite and then denied doing it?

In the spirit of helping my fellow human beings, Books, I'd like to suggest that you seek some professional help. You seem to have trouble accepting responsibility for things you've done. This would be indicative of a possible mental malady. I think you might want to look into it. You've made a hell of a first impression on me.

Thanks for the well-wishes.

All,
This thread has degenerated past the point of being useful. I appreciate all the good advice. Moderators, please feel free to close the thread to further comments.
I won't be posting in it any further. I haven't decided what's going to happen with the collection, I'm thinking on putting it up on the Want To Sell Board and Seeing what kind of interest it generates. If I do, it may be some time because I want to do it with high resolution photographs so people can see exactly what they're getting. I appreciate those who steered me that direction.

 

Barfly, I have to say, tone it down or risk losing your reputation.

That is if you didn't lose already by almost accusing a member of having a mental illness.

Denial, it's called being human Barfly, not automatic grounds for suspecting someone has a mental illness.

 

Oh please, get a thicker skin. He did no such thing.......