An Interesting Counterfeit 1805 Half Cent and new Coin Week Article

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jack D. Young, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Colonialjohn

    Colonialjohn Active Member

    Once Material Analysis becomes more commonplace this will be an easier task. There is no way to catch these once they enter the market QUICKLY. I expect the edges to look new, very low sulfur and chlorides on the surface and who knows what other 21st Century impurities will be traced in the copper alloy. These raised bumps are signatures for a die cast transfer process.

    I ssume you were not at the EAC Meeting in Baltimore? JPL
     
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  3. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    This example XRF'd at mostly copper with trace but measurable amounts of zinc, nickel and iron; as Insider and I discussed there needs to be a large number of data points to understand if this is significant.

    If you meant me, no, I regularly attend the later Baltimore show. I will be at EAC '18 in Michigan and the Philly ANA in August.

    Jack
     
  4. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Color would be my first guess, also looks eraser cleaned
     
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Cheech9712, posted: "Color would be my first guess, also looks eraser cleaned."

    From what I have seen, all I will say is the basic, overall color of the coin is of little help. The edges of the deceptive fakes are not sharp or "new" in appearance either.

    I've fairly sure that Mr. Young and his group know a lot of things about these coins that they will hopefully not reveal.
     
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  6. Bert Gedin

    Bert Gedin Well-Known Member

    1805 - Year of Battle of Austerlitz and Battle of Trafalgar.
     
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  7. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    I think only a few will know
     
  8. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I was reporting these fakes when they started being offered alongside US silver and many types of foreign silver/copper coins by our friends in China. That was 2014/2015 and initially most people didn't believe me or wrote me off as not knowing what I'm talking about. About a year or so in people finally started paying attention.
    Here is one I had posted at that time: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1805-half-cent.265385/
    It's cool to see that it was included in the article as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  9. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    You are right on- wish we had talked back then! My journey to the dark side started the fall of 2015.
     
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  10. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    I did the smae thing for the reverse as I did for the obverse in Post #17. Look at the green circles on the OP counterfeit. Are these Rev 1805 C4 1.JPG Rev 1805 C4 2.JPG Rev 1805 C4 3.JPG Rev 1805 C4 4.JPG scratches and gouges from the source coin that were transferred to the counterfeit from the counterfeit dies?
     
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  11. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    A second example of the 1805 "C-4" struck fake ended up on the Bourse of EAC '18 in MI; my friend brought it over to my display and matched it to the attribution points and to my example. Dealer who sold it returned the buyer's check and donated it to my exhibited collection. Coin Week was there and taped the ensuing discussion (images copied from that video courtesy Charles and Coin Week.

    Clipboard03.jpg

    Clipboard05.jpg

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    Coin has been sent to NGC for XRF scan and imaging.
     
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