Featured An examination of the counterfeit slab epidemic. Scope and advice.

It's always interesting when people are called out for not having sufficient evidence and then replying that it's hyperbole with the same lack of evidence.

 

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I'm confused at your statement. I've provided facts regarding the number of certified coins out there. I'm asking for facts that support there is an epidemic of fake slabs. As of yet, I've not seen these facts. Perhaps you have some??

 

I guess you ignored the explicit numbers I gave you. It’s not worth my time to respond if you are not going to read what I say.

15 years ago, the Chinese counterfeiting operation produced a limited number of low-quality cast counterfeits. About 8 years ago they expanded into thousands of different types and varieties. Some only had a few dozen made (who wants a fake 1935 D nickel?), and some have had thousands made. At what point would you have called it an epidemic? Would you have called the person silly 15 years ago for warning against the Chinese fake epidemic?

 

I gave you numbers. Much of it is an unknown at this time, especially since the fake slabs can be homemade using kits from China.

 

He didn’t say there are no fake slabs, he rather said there’s no “epidemic”. And I have to agree, I rarely see any fake slabs. In my opinion, the OP has to provide evidence, not the person challenging his statement.

 

Here is maybe an easier question to help you understand why I see no hard evidence. How many fake slabs are out there right now?

 

Or can you quantify what an epidemic is exactly?

 

How many counterfeit Morgan dollars are out there? I would love to know

 

So... you posted a claim about there being an epidemic of fake slabs. I ask you how many fake slabs are out there and your response is to ask me how many fake Morgans are out there? Sweet redirect, now back to my question please.

 

That doesn't tell anything about what percentage of them are fakes. Many of fakes have been certified before discovering that they are fakes. They then make note for their staff to be on the look out for them, but 1% or 2% of that 40 million could be fake, or not. That is a significant point. TPGs work on volume and detecting fakes takes TIME.

I would be interested in what a random sample of say 2,000 coins would reveal if studied by those knowledgeable in detecting both counterfeit coins and counterfeit slabs. But that hasn't been done yet to my knowledge. Until then, all we have to work with is anecdotal evidence and what those with detective skills are seeing. But if only 1 in 50 have been detected it could amount to a huge volume of such harmful sales.

 

What you are arguing is semantics. Does it matter? If so, why?

If I just said “here are a couple fake slabs, watch out”, not a lot of people are going to see it as much of a concern. People need to be concerned NOW with only tens of thousands of fake slabs in existence, instead of 5-10 years from now when the problem has compounded to hundreds of thousands or millions.

 

Something less than a pandemic.

 

You completely missed the point. There is no way to know exactly, and you are perfectly aware of that. But you certainly had fun trying to evade that point didn’t you?

My low-end estimate is a few ten thousand. But that number increases daily

 

I would be interested in this too. But since we don't have any of this scientific data, I'm confused at how we arrived at the term "epidemic" on a featured thread...

So... you are calling it an epidemic just so people will listen??

 

How sure are you that you can detect a good fake slab? Perhaps you have seen a large number and didn't realize it.

 

I'm well aware you have no idea how many there are, and that's exactly the point.

You've labeled it an epidemic without any sort of way to validate your claim.

You're overstating the existence of fake slabs in the effort to combat future fake slabs. I'm not buying it and just pointing out that this write up fails to meet basic criteria for an argument.

30,000/80,000,000 = .000375

 

Thanks for clarifying

 

It seems odd that you have a problem with that. Will this piece mess up your business of selling fake slabs or something?

Based on the frequency they show up relative to raw Chinese fakes, my estimate could be off by an order of magnitude. I would love to know exactly how many are out there and how many slab serial numbers have been compromised.

 

I'm a big fan of how you always make unnecessary personal attacks at people who simply ask critical questions. I've challenged an extremely weak assumption of yours, which you've now confirmed to be just that, and suddenly I'm part of the evil plot to defraud millions of collectors worldwide. I have no problem with wishing to combat future fraud efforts. I have a problem with liars and people who spin lies to push their agenda. I take issue with people who do so hiding behind anecdotal evidence, lies, and slander. You have twice now admitted to intentionally overstating the present state of fake slabs and reduced your post to nothing more than a joke. Carry on chicken little.

 

Again why does it matter? It is only semantics. And you have ABSOLUTELY no evidence to back up that it isn’t a problem at all.

Everything I have said is true. You just don’t agree with my semantics and wording. I have no way to know if there are just 10000 fake slabs or 10 million. It’s safer to assume the latter.

What agenda do you speak of? Helping fellow collectors? You are against that? Hmmm

Ah, so you can’t take a joke about your overreaction to one single word?

Okay. Fake slabs aren’t a problem people. Forget everything I said. It’s all worthless information. PCGS and NGC slabs have airtight security and you won’t ever get scammed.