Featured An examination of the counterfeit slab epidemic. Scope and advice.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by TypeCoin971793, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Active Member


    Scammers make companies look bad, do they not?


    PCGS and NGC do a fine service. I have no problem with them. It just would make things easier to identify fakes if PCGS photographed all the coins.

    I'm all for making our hobby safer.

    That's the ticket. :greedy:
     
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  3. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Scammers make themselves look bad, companies aren't responsible for people making fakes of their product. Every company would stop it immediately if they could, they cannot
     
  4. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Again missing the point in my opinion- having images on the PCGS on-line certs would aid in showing these as fakes and at least be a start to reducing the problem. And this post goes full circle...
    I intend to continue to post examples here as I get the chance.
     
  5. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Active Member


    You're right, scammers are problem and companies aren't responsible. Never said otherwise. Here's what I meant, though.


    So, someone is browsing eBay for a coin. They see something in a slab which catches their eye. The coin is graded AU 53. But the coin looks more like it should be F 12. The person looking at this thinks the grading service is incompetent and avoids the coins that compnay graded. Especially if this person doesn't know about fake slabs and lower graded coins being put into the slab. That's how scammers make a company look bad.


    Sorry if I lead to confusion.
     
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  6. HaleiwaHI

    HaleiwaHI Active Member

    I had to go back to the original post to remember what we were suppose to be talkikng about! For old people, this was getting a bit confusing (at least to me) :D
     
  7. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Active Member

    I looked forward to this thread. I was hoping to learn something about identifying fake slabs and coins. Since I got back into coins it's been nothing but a crash course studying about counterfeiters. But this thread crashed a burned. Which is a real shame, it has so much potential.
     
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  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That's certainly a valid point such as someone buying a Coach purse that falls apart right away or a Rolex that breaks etc. In terms of getting away with that, thats a bigger threat overall for more luxury brand items, gems like diamonds and things of that nature. Anything of value people will always try and fake or manipulate.

    The TPGs are especially vulnerable to the issue you described of someone looking at a coin real or fake and someone saying they're incompetent. No matter what they do people will do that. Whether it be someone glancing at a fake and thinking it's them or collectors being like this is wrong it's going to happen. The pictures for everything will likely come at some point for at least PCGS and maybe the rest too (though someone would have to bother to look it up for it even to matter) but even then people will still have the same complaints.

    I do think that point you had is certainly valid, I just don't think anything will ever change that as far as TPGs go.
     
    Dynoking likes this.
  9. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    No, it is more about letting this hobby fall into the hands of proffitt and not common sense. The TPG's have long been trying to fool the average man.
    The knowledge lies with the simple man not the self serving advocate.
     
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  10. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    The oldest scams in the book are people claiming to be expert at things they know nothing abut.

    ie "God lied about that fruit on that tree..." - SATAN
     
  11. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    From another Forum this morning...

    1915 $10 gold "PCGS"- no image on the on-line cert but fortunately auction references and good images of the genuine one (obviously on the right, courtesy HA!) on Heritage's site.

    Coin is bad but barcode is better.

    comp-obv.jpg
    comp-rev.jpg

    cert.jpg
     
  12. usc96

    usc96 Junior Member

    Curious where the fake was found? Was it found on a national online auction company or was it found at your local flea market?

    For what it's worth, I collect this series and even the genuine example is not one I would be excited to pay top dollar for because the eye appeal I expect from MS64 for my collection just isn't there for me.
     
  13. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Coin was listed on eBay; seller ended the auction.
     
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Okay, this one's more alarming.

    First, it's the first one I've seen in a while where the typography looks right to me.

    Second, the barcode is correct.

    Third, the QR code scans correctly. It's still not quite right, but how many collectors have also spent time digging into QR code standards?

    Of course, the coin itself gives the game away to anyone paying the slightest attention. But use one of these fake slabs to encapsulate a well-made fake, or a genuine coin with a big value jump between 58 and 62, or 66 and 67, and... :nailbiting:
     
  15. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody who doesn’t know anything...

    Exactly. Hence this article and my admonishment of PCGS
     
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  16. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Active Member

    And this is why this thread is so valuable. Last night I bought 2 NGC slabbed Trade Dollars. Both had pictures on the NGC lookup and they clearly were the same coin.

    Thank you for the valuable information.
     
  17. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody who doesn’t know anything...

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  18. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Are NGC and PCGS taking pics NOW of all coins they grade ?

    They better ! :mad:
     
  19. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    Actually I was just looking a some PCGS Brazilian gold up for auction. Coins were in slabs grading MS-63 and MS-62. After looking at the pictures and having lived in Brazil for several years and being a member of the Brazilian numismatic club, it's my conclusion that the coins are really AU's.

    It's going to be hard to buy anything until one gets to look at coins in person. Of course the modern theory is that the actual grade of the coin doesn't matter or only influences price 10-20%. What is important is the slab grade.

    That's a thought.
     
  20. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    NGC does, PCGS does not afaik.
     
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  21. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    An oldie but goldie, no image for this one but other issues to point to a bad slab/ coin:D:

    combo.jpg
     
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