Altar of Lugdunum, Countermark TIB

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Pellinore, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Today I bought this coin at a coinfair. It was found in the Netherlands.
    The obverse is totally obliterated, I can't find head or toes about it, but there should be a head of Augustus or Tiberius on it. It has a countermark TIB.
    The reverse is fairly clear for a countermarked coin, it shows the altar of Lugdunum with a wreath flanked by palm branches and little men, and topped by two Victories. Underneath is the inscription ROM ET AVG.
    It's smallish, only about 20 mm, and it weighs 7.30 gr., that's o.k. for an as.
    Do you have any ideas about it? Please!

    Tibbie.jpg
     
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  3. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    By it's weight and diameter it seems to be a semis (half an As) both Augustus and Tiberius issued them, that could be a TIB (Tiberius) counterstamp over an Augustus obverse.
     
  4. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Or it could be an As clipped in antiquity, here is my semis, it is 18mm, 5.27gm.
    Augustus. bEc2o7GoHk5Q79BmKkc3i8FZWa6C4D (1).jpg
     
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  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I agree with AncientAussie, although I don't know the coin well. There are two versions, right? One with the bust of Augustus and another with the bust of Tiberius, struck under Augustus? It makes sense that the OP coin would be Augustus with a TIB stamp rather than Tiberius bust with Tiberius stamp... assuming the TIB countermark means Tiberius as in the second emperor of the Roman empire and not some other meaning/person.
     
  6. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Probably the best way of telling is to measure across the die stamp on reverse between two columns victories are standing on, mine is 9mm, if yours is bigger than that it is a cut down As.
     
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  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Augustus 2.jpg
    AUGUSTUS
    AE As
    OBVERSE: CAESAR PONT MAX, laureate head right
    REVERSE: Altar of Lugdunum, Victory on each pedestal, ROM ET AVG below
    Lugdunum 15-10 BC
    8.4g, 26mm
    RIC 230
     
  8. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    That's a nice Augustus portrait Bing.
     
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  9. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Thanks. Just wish the reverse was nicer.
     
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  10. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Here RIC 245, 25 mm, 11 gr:
    RIC245TiberiusAsW.jpg
     
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  11. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    My coin is oval, I now measured it exactly: it is between 21.5 and 23 mm in diameter. The distance between the two columns is 9 mm, not more, not less.
     
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  12. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I now believe this is the right aspect of the obverse. The head must be offcenter to the right and down:

    Tib.jpg

    And then the obv-rev-ratio is 6h.
     
  13. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    I forgot to mention my 9mm was outside, was that the same place you measured?
     
  14. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    No, I measured the empty space between the columns just above the roof.
     
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  15. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    From that I am sure your coin is an As, maybe slightly lighter in weight as portrait ground or worn down, but I would be happy with a coin like that as probably unique, congrats.
     
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  16. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    That's one of the best I have seen of this type. Very nice indeed.
     
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  17. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Thanks, but please could you make clear to me what is unique about it? I bought it yesterday (for 5 bucks) because I don't have early Imperial countermarked coins that are so small, and the reverse has been preserved well. On the obverse are some ugly raised warts that intrigue me, probably the coin has been tampered with somehow in antiquity. Maybe the coin was countermarked because it was smallish and disfigured.
     
  18. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    What I mean't by unique is I have never seen the whole obverse cleaned of to add a countermark, on those particular type, so there would be a lot less of them than the normal As of Augustus.
     
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