alert goverment refusing coins for payment

I live in PA, about 25 miles from a town called Kingsville. There is a well-known speed trap there, where the speed limit goes 55 to 35. The cop sits just past the sign, and pulls over most out-of-state cars. So, I was driving towards Kingsville, doing 35 mph, because I didn't know exactly where the trap is. I got pulled over, and he asked me why I was going 35 in a 55 zone. I said I knew there was a speed trap there, and didn't want to be pulled over. He got mad, and made me do a roadside sobriety test at 10 am, just to embarass me in front of my girlfriend.

 

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There are no laws that say what type of payment anyone must take and that includes the government.
I guess a person could hire a great lawyer and test it. Not a legal bill I would ever wish to pay.
Let us know how it turns out.

 

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so then it's not about coins after all.

 

Krispy gave you great advice. Over the last several decades I have learned that Right does not equate to Might and being "Right may be costly. Take the coin to the Post Office and buy a money order and pay the fine. Then move on with your life. Get involved with something you can do that will credate change in the system. But in my honest opinion you are jousting a windmill here. Maybe you should run for City Councilman or Mayor and use this as a platform or something ? Fighting over them refusing the coins seems more problematic than the reward you get by forcing them to take them.

But if you really want to fight them, take a reporter with a camera running and capture the video of them refusing the money. That way, when you get arrested for the non=payment of the fine, you can show the Judge that you attempted to make a payment. But, the act of paying in change could be construed as Contempt of Court.

I am just saying, take the low road here and get the fine paid so you can move on with your life. They are only doing this because handling the coins is problematic and time consuming for them. Probably in the past, they have had people pay with loose cents as a sign of protest. They may even have small print someplace telling you that coins are not accepted.

 

Go to the grocery store and see if they'll accept $150 in loose change, the answer is no. Take your change to the bank and get cash. If it is a known speed trap, why were you speeding? Just to get a ticket so you could pull this mess on an underpaid overworked city clerk? That is my guess. A show of hands, who did not already know that local governments do not function properly. They are all flawed. Not a numismatic topic, I shall move on.

 

Citation please? A piece of legislation, court ruling, anything that supports that assumption? I know of nothing that requires the government to accept it any more than a private business has to. In fact there is plenty of 19th century case history where the Treasury did refuse it. the only reason they did start accepting it was because the Congress passed redemption laws. But in this case you are not requesting redemption so they don't apply. No the government does not have to accept legal tender.

 

I got my info at us department of treasury faq currency legaltender status, but you know i'm from west virginia i dont understand everything i read. I'm trying

when i was young, i was told not to put change in my mouth, when i was a little older i was taught to save my change. we had penny loafers [SHOE'S FOR NON HILLBILLY'S} and lucky pennies. our founding fathers, presidents, native americans, landmarks,states, and animals have all been honored with change some uses i know of for change; parking meters, vending machines, carwashes, slot machines, toll booths, bathroom stalls, bus fares and many more. they make machines to convert bills into change. they make machines to hunt for change. the goverment makes laws for change there is talk radio shows about change, many organizations and clubs for collecting change. the salvation army even takes change almost everyone has a use for change. but when i tried to spend it in gauly bridge they refused it

 

Wondering how many countries have thought about it...

From the Royal Mint website:

 

Spreading the word? Give me a break! This same stunt (paying fines in loose change) has been tried for 50 years or more. You're acting like a crybaby because you got a ticket. If you had been paying full time and attention to your driving, you wouldn't have gotten it in the first place. Grow up!

Chris

 

First off, minor coins are only "legal tender" in limited amounts. Secondly, the "legal tender" clause on notes does not obligate anybody to accept them. The entire clause reads, "This note is legal tender for all debts, public or private". What does this mean? It means: if A owes B, and tries to pay B with notes which B refuses, then B has no legal recourse to claim the debt. The courts will consider A's offer to pay with notes as done in good faith, and will not authorize the seizure of A's property or any other usual recourse that would otherwise be available to B.

Since minor coins are not legal tender above a certain amount (I believe twenty-five cents for pennies and $5 for other coins), they can be refused without invoking the "for all debts" clause. Also note that this applies to debts only. A seller can refuse any sort of payment he chooses without violating the law. Insurance offices, apartment rental agents, etc., routinely demand checks or money orders and are within their rights, since you are paying for something yet to be provided, and therefore no debt is involved.

 

so what you are telling me is us tender is worthless so i guess we need to go on the barter system. collecting coins i always thought if times get hard they would at least be worth face value. i wonder how these towns count all that change in parking meters or do they take plastic also

 

you must be a note collector

 

You are 100% wrong about the limit to the quantity of small coins permitted. I will guarantee that you cannot find any such regulation/law anywhere fore any government in the US. It is a little hard to prove a negative, but try reading this one; http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp.

You picked the right line and word as the critical to the law here, however, you need to change one word. "The courts will consider..........." should say "The courts may consider .............."

 

He didn't say any such thing. He stated they weren't legal tender over a certain ammount. As virtually everyone over the age of 6 knows, all you have to do is take your coin to a bank and get it exchanged for currency which I'm sure they would have gladly accepted.

 

Sorry, but banks are not at all obliged to accept them either. No form of payment is mandated by any law or regulation for any fee for services/materials. PERIOD. Any business (banks are a business) may require you to use any form of payment they so desire - corn, gold, sand, pesos you name it.

 

No, I think what several of us have really said , including the Treasury Faq you mentioned, is that legal tender refers to a debt from a creditor, and a fine is not such. You received no goods from the city/county, and thus no debt. Paying the fine is a way of escaping a legal action, whether by a Judge's decision or possibly a jury trial, and not a prior debt.

I can understand you feel an injustice has occurred, but I suspect much of your complaint is not driven only by the concept of "Legal Tender" coinage.

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Nope!

All you did was make yourself look foolish.

Chris

 

My, my, we're a contentious bunch on this board. Not that I mind, I enjoy a good pointless scrap as much as the next man. Anyway, here you go:

"The minor coins of the United States are legal tender for any amount not exceeding 25 cents in any one payment." Act Feb. 12, 1873, Rev. Stat. '387, Comp. Stat. '6574, 6 Fed.Stat. Anno. 2d. ed. p. 298

That's an old statute, and has been superseded by 31 U.S.C.A. 5103, which doesn't explicitly limit the legal tender status of minor coins. Nonetheless, courts have found that the explicit wording of the older statute is implicit in the newer one. In State v. Carroll (1997), an Ohio federal district court ruled that, when the defendant's attempt to pay a municipal fine with 12,800 pennies was rebuffed, it did not violate the law because:

"It defies logic and common sense that Congress intended such a wooden and broad application of the statute beyond the control of the payee regardless of the circumstances."

The Court further ruled that the clerk of the municipality had the authority under law to:

"provide a reasonable procedure for the place, time and manner of accepting fines consistent with the efficient operation of the clerk's office."

I hope this clarifies things.

 

I believe the clerk's decision to refuse such payment would be reasonable whether the coins were loose or rolled because the total of the payment would still have to be counted and verified, and this would most certainly affect the efficient operation of the office.

Chris

 

In other words, marble, you're ****ed.

Instead of crying and whining like a little *****, pay your fine and move on.

There's a reason local police in PA aren't allowed to use radar for speed enforcement.