Ah, US coin collectors....

I'd be surprised if many coins of any type are being melted right now, some world coins maybe but shouldn't be much. The physical prices a lot are charging are way over what the spot price is so it makes more sense to keep it and sell it for more.

The melting usually happens when you want to lock in a profit on a large amount quickly. Using the last run up as an example if I had a couple hundred ounces of silver sitting around that I had paid say $10 an ounce for and now spot is in the $30s melting it could very well be the fastest and easiest way to lock in those profits. That's usually when the most stuff coin wise gets melted

 

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Hi medoraman! I also thank you for your gracious response. I believe that you didn't mean any harm in your original post. In my very clumsy way, I was just trying to stick up for the underdogs and make them feel welcome here, which I still think is a worthy goal, even if I didn't handle things very well. Part of the problem is probably that I am not as mentally stable as I would like to be, owing to some events in the last few years. I'm on a couple of medications now that have made a big difference, though, and hopefully things can continue to improve.

About "melt," though, I meant it literally. I worked for a coin shop until about a year ago. Over my several years there, I saw us shipping off for melting large quantities of both Canadian and US coinage a number of times each year; the amounts were typically in the six-figures in terms of dollar values, so that was a lot of silver getting melted. I know most nations have laws against defacing coins, but I assume there are exemptions for melting bullion. Of course, the owner preferred to sell the coins as bullion right away, but when I was there, demand was usually only a small fraction of supply. Because of the narrow margins on bullion, he had to turn them over quickly so as to be able to make a profit and not take potentially heavy losses.

 

Fair enough you have personal experience in SENDING them to melters. I knew some dealers who BOUGHT the same coins. Many times "melters" are large accumulation sites. All kinds of stores send in for "melt", these places sort them into common coins and resell bags. @baseball21 is right, in times of extreme turbulenc, where the parties cannot effectively lay off bullion risk on the futures market, more might get melted then, but usually even if a store sends it in for melt, it doesn't see the smelter. This is true mostly for US coins. Silverware, foreign, (especially oddball fineness), jewelry etc gets the heck melted out of it.

No problems with me sir. I understand being grumpy at times. I am a disabled Gulf War vet with pain meds, so sometimes I am grumpy as well. Sorry if I misread your posts in turn. Hope you are doing better.

 

Hi again, my forgiving friend! A quick note: we were a dealer that was actually sold to by the smaller local shops. We would send the coins to a refinery and receive a deposit back for them. I know because I processed many of the invoices. I seem to remember that sometimes we received silver bars back directly in return, but I might be mis-remembering there. (Btw, I also sorted the coins from each purchase I made in the store. I actually really miss seeing the junk silver that came in. It was very interesting.)

About your service and pain medications: you must be very brave. I am glad that you are *alive,* and I'm glad that you are well enough to collect and participate here. I hope that if there is any way for things to improve for you, they will, but I admire your resilience very much.

 

No they don't, and pukes like you make me sick. I'm a collector. I'm not in the hobby for monetary gain but for the love of design and beauty.

 

It's the Roman U and a design decision at the time. You can see it on Peace dollars as well and some buildings

 

Well baseball showed up so this thread has officially gone to h e double hockey sticks.

 

Really @green18 , you are resorting to NAME calling? I am very surprised by your comment. Honestly, if we were discussing this subject in a face to face manner, would you truly resort to name calling? Or, is it much easier to be "anonymous" behind a keyboard? I honestly thought you were much better than that.

Personally, I believe all the marketing hype behind all the grading / slabbing is marketing hype. This is my experience being in management for over 40 years with companies where marketing was used to create hype for products, and induce folks to purchase them. That is called "drinking the Kool-Aid", due to everyone really understands that concept.

Yes sir, I very much agree. Add-on sales, but it concerns if if consumers will be bilked for higher prices just because they may not know the coins.

I, too, have many World Coins from my International travels over the last 40 years of business. I probably have 2-3 kilos of change that I have collected. However, I never post mine, but I have as many Gold World coins as I do Ancients.

 

That’s pretty obvious.
The next layer of knowledge is why was it a design decision?
One thing is to observe the design in itself, noting the different varieties, errors, etc.
Another thing is to ask why did society at that time want that design. I find the latter a much more interesting, but much more difficult question.
These discussions happen a lot more often around the iconography of ancient coins, I think.

Why does the Mercury dime have fasces on the reverse? Is it because the US was fascist at the time?
Or did the fasists’ use of ancient symbols pollute them to the extent that they became impossible to use post ww2?

 

Lifetime portrait coin of Julius Caesar (March, 44BC)

Yes, of course. While I am mostly known on CT for my interest in Romano-British associated coinage, which derives from having been born and growing up in an area steeped in that history, I have also collected a few more modern coins along the way. Because the area of northern Britain I grew up in was also associated with the English Civil Wars, Preston battlefield (the scene of Charles Stuart’s final crushing defeat) was only a few miles from my home as was the great estate of the Royalist Towneley family, I naturally have collected a few coins associated with those wars - example:


Who can resist a Charles Stuart on horse-back (ala Van Dyke) half-crown? Not a collector coin by any means, but still precious to me.

And more modern yet, a well worn, much circulated, British penny of my birth year (1929) and I have several other circulated coins from the 1930s also:



Those coins mean as much to me as my Ancients.
For me, it is all about historical association - condition is secondary.

 

The quick version of that is that yes it was designed by someone born in Germany, it was also designed toward the start of WW1 and was supposed to symbolize unity and strength with of course the peace being the olive branch. I personally think that design is highly overrated (especially the reverse) so I do pay a lot less attention to it overall but we of course all like different things

 

After having bungled things somewhat in my previous foray, here, I hope I can be forgiven for trying again(!). I'll try to be more respectful and careful, though.

"Drinking the Kool-aid" is originally a reference to the Jonestown massacre. It refers to people who have been brainwashed into doing something very much against their own best interests. As such, it's a very derogatory expression, even if you didn't mean it harshly (and I'm sure you didn't). In other words, if you had said, "you've been mislead into doing something against your own best interests," green18 could have seen your concern for him and others, also. The expression "drinking the Kool-Aid" has a different connotation that is much more negative, thus masking your positive intention in writing it.

That's part of what I was trying to get at before. It's been wisely suggested to me that I need to gain a bit of a thicker skin, and that's probably true, but I think it's also true that we could all probably try to be a little more careful with what we write. I don't think that you would have made the Kool-Aid reference in person with green18, but if you did, the various non-verbal cues like smiles and gestures, and so on, as well as the ability to be asked quickly for clarification, would have helped green18 to realize that you didn't mean harm.

I agree that green18's response was not appropriate, but I think he was receiving a message that you weren't actually sending.

 

It's not at all. While it may not fit the ancient section there is a very legitimate need and great service it does for collectors of other areas. It's entirely possible to realize that something necessary in some areas doesn't necessary fit every area

 

Judge not, lest ye be judged.......I don't recall any modern or classical collector of US coins ever making an assessment of ancient collectors in these forums. You hit a nerve with me making that koolaide comment.

And I apologize for calling you a 'puke'........it was a tad over-reactive.

 

Yes, I understand.

No problem on the apology, LOL, I have used "Puke" SEVERAL times growing up. It is actually a hilarious term to me, and called my friends that many times as I was growing up. Cheech and Chong anyone?

 

Please, @Nathan B. , you do not have to defend or explain everything. I am a big boy. Yes, I do understand the Kool-Aid association with Jonestown. I remember that travesty as it were yesterday.

However, yes, as to marketing usage, Kool-Aid is an incredibly well known brand. And, its association is used in many other venues. I explained that before.

 

Understood. All the best, N.

 

[QUOTE="green18, post: 4602920, member:I don't recall any modern or classical collector of US coins ever making an assessment of ancient collectors in these forums.[/QUOTE]

Like 5 or 10 threads of mine back, I totally got blind sided by an couple "modern collectors " drive by. It totally ruined the thread, and my day, frankly.
Sorry Gandy, but I do resort to NAME calling when someone is THIS far off BASE. lol.
I grew up collecting moderns and from time to time still do. This means:


But if I'm being honest, this thread is coinist against us world collectors! All this crying about ancients and moderns...I JUST PICKED UP NAPPY And HIS FIRST WIFE (Josephine) and have no community to share it with (that actually replies and posts back that is).

Napoléon FRANCE,PremierEmpire. 1804-1814. AR Medal (35mm, 24.11 g, 12h). On the Coronation Festival at the City Hall of Paris. By N.G.A. Brenet. Dated AN XIII (1804/5). NAPOLEON JOSEPHINE ., jugate busts of Napoleon, laureate, and Josephine, draped and wearing tiara and necklace, right; BRENET below /
FIXA PERENNIS IN ALTO SEDES., laureate eagle nesting facing in mountainous terrain on branches of laurel and oak, head right, with wings displayed; BRENET below talon; FÊTES DU COURONNEMENT/DONNÉES/À L’HOTEL DE VILLE/AH XIII. in four lines in exergue. Bramsen 359. Toned, minor marks and hairlines. EF.
Ex: Monnaies d’Antan

It overshadows my coin with him and wifey #2 by no small margin.

Napoleon Bonaparte, J. Andrieu e D. Denoy, France, 1810, Argento, g 36,35, mm 40,00, D/ (The busts of Napoleon and Maria Louise, to right)
Below the cutting of the neck: ANDRIEU F . / DENOY D.
R/ NAPOLEON IMP. ET ROI M. LOUISE D’AUTRICHE
(Napoleon and Marie Louise are holding hands, old clothes, next to an altar decorated with a bow and arrow and the text: J. JOUANNIN)
In exergue: Ir . AVRIL . M . DCCCX / DENON . D .
Medal for the marriage of Napoleon and Marie Louise of Austria April 2nd 1810. Ex: in Asta

Jk @green18 . You're not a nerd. Your posts make me laugh from time to time. But Gandy is my buddy and you were a bit harsh

 

I agree, baseball21. Actually, as a newcomer to ancients, I am very glad that grading and slabbing is an option for ancients, too. It helps new people who come into the hobby to learn grading skills, and even though NGC doesn't guarantee the authenticity of its grades, at least they probably wouldn't knowingly slab a fake.

If one is a dealer, or if one has a lot of disposable income, or if one can visit a local coin shop with a selection of ancients, one can pick up a lot of first-hand knowledge with coins by observing them directly. If one doesn't have much money, is still learning, or lives far away from a coin shop, grading helps to facilitate their entry into the hobby when they make their first purchases. The plastic slab also has the virtue of physically protecting a coin, if that's a concern.

It's not just about trying to turn a profit (although I personally don't have a problem with that--after all, the dealers who service us are trying to do exactly that). Dealers often find that slabbed coins are much easier to sell than unslabbed ones. For a person new to a hobby, buying a slabbed coin removes some of the confusion and ambiguity from the process of buying, and also from the process of eventually selling.

My only real beef is that the slabs tend to scratch extremely easily. I have seen many slabs with scuffing so thick that it feels rough on the fingers, and disturbs the view of the coin. My only hard-slabbed coin is in a new slab, and I keep it very protected by wrapping it in paper towel.

 

If I buy a slabbed u.s. modern coin, I break it out within minutes of getting it home. Slabs are a scourge on numismatics.