I saw two deals on a nickel book and dime book of coins from craigslist and took the seller up on their offer. I wanted the silver war nickels (I collect them) and the silver dimes he had also. They were both in the old blue whitman folders. When I got home, I went to take a few out and they wouldn't come out. I don't know if he glued them in there or if they were bonded to the inside of their "hole of death" as I now call it! I kick myself I didn't get any pictures of when I took them out. They had what appeared to be glue and the blue backing on them stuck. I sat them in an old stainless steel coffee mug overnight with acetone overnight. Just rinsed them off and the crud came off but the bad black toning is still there and some spots where the glue used to be. (Side note) I had a kennedy half, Susan B and a bicentennial quarter in a Jewelery box for almost 15 years. They started to get that green toning on that I've heard about so I threw them in for giggles. They all came out clean and I couldn't be happier! Thank you acetone! I don't have any of that dip you guys talk about for the silver but I do have liquid silver cleaner. The nickels and dimes have no value other than melt so I'm assuming that it would be ok to use this on them to get rid of the black death toning they have? What are your thoughts?
Black death toning is 'terminal state'. You could dip the the blackened coins, and since they are not extremely valuable, the process might be a good learning tool for you.
I figured at the very least this is what I will get out of the whole thing (which is a bonus if I think about it!). This is mostly how things come to fruition for me, advice from great people here on coin talk and learning by doing!
Definitely sounds like they were glued. I recently inherited a dozen blue folders from my Grandpa when he passed. He had been working on them since the 1950's. Every coin came out easily.
Good lesson to pass on also (and I knew this going in to it) is to check the dates on the coins in the albums you are buying. Just don't believe that the right coin is in the right spot. It could be malicious or in this case, the guy didn't know what he was collecting. He just threw them in there. Some were correct, most were not.
LOL.......that's the case with some folders that my father left me........filler coins and not the real date or mint mark.
Here's the thing with the blue Whitman folders, the older ones anyway. And I am making that distinction because I have not looked at any newer ones in about 15 years so it's possible they may be different. It's also possible they may be the same. When the folders were manufactured there is/was a thicker piece of cardboard that had the thin, outer dark blue covering glued to it. But that thin outer covering, it was completely covered in glue, the whole thing edge to edge. What this resulted in was the portion of that covering that the backside of the coin/s actually came into contact with - was also covered with glue. In other words, the coins were in direct contact with a piece of paper covered in glue, in contact with the glue itself. And sometimes, moisture, heat, pressure (from folders being stacked) and or the combination of all of these things, resulted in that glued paper sticking to the coins. This was a rather common occurrence. But it by no means happened every time. Between the cardboard, the paper, and the glue, this is why these old blue folders are infamous for destroying coins either with terminal toning or results such as the OP reported. Depending on the brand, it's sometimes the same thing as coin dip, or very similar to it. But products sold as commercial silver cleaners are often a good bit harsher, stronger, than some coin dips. Some of them are strong enough that even a 1 second dip will strip any and all luster from a coin. As a general rule it is strongly recommended that commercial silver cleaners not be used on coins - unless you know what you are doing and dilute it greatly.
Ahh Doug also remembers how the old folders were made. They did eventually stop using that method of construction and began applying the glue to the cardboard (probably with an adhesive covered roller) so the glue was only on the cardboard, and then the paper was applied. That way there was no glue behind the coins. On the OLD holders you could look at those holes that didn't have coins, you could actually see the ribs of adhesive on the backing paper. Another thing these folders were known for was caused by the final printed flap that was folded in over the last page of coins. If left undisturbed long enough, the paper and ink on the flap could cause toning on the coins covered, resulting in the printing from the flap being "reverse toned" onto the surface of the coins.
How old are these holders you guys are referring to? Because I have a drawer full of dozens of old Whitman folders. I just checked them, and I have examples back to the 1950's. Not a single one has "ridges of adhesive" or glue in the holes.
Well let's see, the most recent memory I have dates to 2001 when my son bought some at a coin show - and they still had glue on them. He was only 10 at the time and didn't know any better, but he picked them out by himself and bought them. They appeared to be brand new, as in never used. But who knows how long the dealer may have had them in his stock. Once he showed them to me I explained why he should not use them and helped him pick out some others. When I was a kid and started collecting in 1960, and didn't know any better they all had glue on them. That was still true in 1970 because I was still buying them then. That's about as far as I can go for pinning down dates.
I know I have the blue folders my dad had, and probably date to the late 40's. I suppose I should get the coins out and soak them in acetone, but first I have to figure out what I'm going to do with them after that.
He only reason people frown on lightly concerving coins is we been all bambozeled in to thinking that’s its wrong but the truth the forces that be want to make money off of their conservation of coins and by you cleaning your coins you cost them money and if you chastise me for this thought I want to say I’m not saying wrizzing or scrubing is good either I try to buy the best coin for my income level as opposed to buying the slab and cdc
Every folder with the end flap shows the copyright date. Some titles were last printed in 1964. Some of those long out of print folders were recently reprinted. The reprint folders usually have a line drawing of the coin on the cover. Folders used to tone high grade copper coins. Silver coins will tarnish whenever they are in contact with wood pulp due to the sulfur contact. Folders are excellent for holding circulated coins. I doubt even the slab lovers would be willing to slab circulated one dollar coins. If you want be all end all storage for your coins buy the archival quality albums from places like Littleton. Then you can house your four dollar Second or Third Lincoln set in a $40 holder. The original retail price of those Whitman folders was 19 cents. The current retail price is about $5 with ample supplies of used folders on the secondary market. You get what you pay for. For the OP and anyone else who wants to clean coins I recommend that you examine them closely first. I have found high dollar varieties in high grades of tarnished coins. Several of my 1944-D/S cents were rejected by the seller for minute carbon spots and ever examined by him. His prejudice against non perfect coins easily cost him $1500.
Sorry conder. I made the America the Beautiful quarter books sold by the US Mint. (black ones) i know they weren't Whitman. There was adhesive on the inner part of the holes. Using the turn edge process. Routed board. Oops. One piece. Glued then routed
If you can clean your coins as good as the professional conservationists then there's no problem. The problem is that most people (including myself) don't know how to clean a coin without another collector knowing it's been cleaned. I do not own a coin that's valuable enough to send in for conservation.If you do a bad enough job cleaning a coin even the pros probably couldn't undo it.
You are right lord knows I’ve screwed up a few coins fortunately low cost ones and I had my successes lately I’ve purchased an 1830 half for 600$ certified unc conditions and a beautiful coin a coin that anyone would love in their type book , like the day it was minted but the best I could get was 200$ The label was the kiss of death and it pissed me off and I finally broke it off and put it in my type book well to all my cointalk friends Merry Christmas
