Featured Aegina stater

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by AncientJoe, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    I've neglected to post several of my new coins for quite some time and will hopefully get into a more regular cadence of uploading.

    I bought this coin out of the most recent Gemini sale. After being somewhat underwhelmed by the picture in the catalog, I assumed I wouldn't be bidding on it. However, upon seeing it in hand, I was blown away and knew I would have to chase after it anticipating considerable competition. I'm becoming increasingly surprised by the range in photography quality by auction houses and dealers: the Gemini picture didn't show any of the iridescence in this coin and I think that is a very important aspect of its overall aesthetics. I won it considerably under my max bid, which is always a good feeling.

    The sale was on the Sunday after the long NYINC show, so I imagine most dealers were already on their way home: the auction was one of the fastest I've ever witnessed, and I almost missed bidding on it myself but luckily happened to check the progress, assuming I'd have a hundred lots to go but mine was up in 20.

    This coin comes from the Millennium Collection sold by Goldberg in 2008 which had a stunning array of coins (including an aureus featuring the Colosseum). I'm very pleased to have acquired it, considering its pedigree and condition, and that it didn't increase in price much over the 2008 sale.

    [​IMG]

    "Aegina. Aegina, c. 380-360 BC. AR Stater (12.01 g). Top view of tortoise with segmented shell. Reverse: Large "refined" skew pattern incuse with five segments. Pozzi 3666; cf. Dewing 1686; cf. SNG Cop. Suppl. 264; SNG Delepierre 1545 ff. The tortoise of remarkable high relief, sharply struck, and perfectly centered on a flan of extraordinary size. Toned, with residual luster of lighter color. Rare in this quality."

    I took some perspective shots as well:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here are some snippets from various auction houses describing the tortoise coinage of Aegina:

    "The silver issues of Aegina were immense: it was one of the chief trading coinages of the 6th and earlier 5th centuries, especially in the Peloponnesos, the Islands and in Central Greece where its weight standard was dominant. Exactly why turtles or tortoises appear on the coinage of Aegina is not clear: it was not a sacred animal. One suggestion is that early, pre-coinage silver ingots in use in the Aegean area were plano-convex in shape; and that on Aegina they were colloquially known as ‘turtles.’ Thus, when coins were introduced, using the turtle as a coin type was a reference to the older, pure-silver ingots that had previously been used in trade."

    "It is usually assumed that the later issues of Aegina, from the 5th century on into the 4th, bear a tortoise rather than a sea turtle because of her loss of any pretension of sea power due to her defeat by Athens. This seems rather illogical, however, since states do not usually commemorate their defeat on their own coinage! On the contrary, this change almost certainly has to do with changes in religious ritual."

    "The island of Aegina was probably the first state in European Greece to issue coined money (mid-sixth century BC). The Aeginetans were famed for their seamanship and were a considerable naval power in the Aegean area. Their didrachm-stater of about 12.6 grams became the accepted standard for numerous mints in the Cyclades, in Crete and in Asia Minor, as well as in Greece itself. In 445 BC, the Thirty Years Peace guaranteed Aegina's autonomy, and a new variant of the Aeginetan coinage was introduced. This depicted the turtle (now usually described as a tortoise) with a segmented carapace in place of the smooth shell of the archaic period. However, with the outbreak of Peloponnesian War in 431 BC, the Aeginetans were expelled from their homes and the island was occupied by Athenian cleruchs, a situation that prevailed until the Athenian defeat in 404 BC."

    Let me know if you have any questions, and please post your turtles as well, especially the earlier sea turtles if you have them!
     
    Curtisimo, akeady, wcg and 25 others like this.
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Stunning coin. This is one of the dream coins I would love to have but they are always outside my budget.
     
  4. Whizb4ng

    Whizb4ng HIC SVNT DRACONES

    I never realized these coins were so pronounced off of the flan. No wonder most of the examples you see are so worn.

    The toning just adds to the appeal of the coin.
     
    Deacon Ray likes this.
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    This is by far the best of it's kind that I've ever seen. My stater pales in comparison, but I'll show it anyways:
    ATTICA, AEGINA.jpg ATTICA AEGINA OBV2.jpg
    ATTICA, AEGINA AR Stater
    OBVERSE: Sea-turtle (T-backed); head in profile
    REVERSE: Large square incuse with skew pattern
    Struck at Aegina, 480-457BC
    11.96g, 20mm
    SNG Cop 507
     
  6. vlaha

    vlaha Respect. The. Hat.

    Wow...I have no words.
     
  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

  8. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Wow, that's pretty cool ... apparently your turtle-artist was very gifted!!

    => congrats on another AncientJoe worthy example!!



    Oh and Bing, I always enjoy seeing your trusty turtle!! (bravo)
     
  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Incredible pictures of an incredible coin! Is the turtle's shell thicker than the flan?!

    Thanks for the additional history. Interesting theories about the change from sea turtle to land turtle. The 'loss of status as a sea power' seems unlikely for the reason stated. The 'change in religious ritual' theory... depends... what is known about the religions in that area? Hmm. Not sure I buy either theory. Who knows? Maybe the artists or politicians just like the look of the land turtles better. Maybe they were desirable or important food sources. Maybe tortoise shell hair combs and jewelry were valuable in their trading?

    I don't know if numismatists have determined the biological classification of your depicted tortoise or if it was even meant to be a realistic depiction of such a reptile, but it looks like a good match for a spur-thighed tortoise (Testudo graeca) which, as the name implies, are native to the area.

    Spur-thighed tortoises' carapaces look very much like your the one on your coin, more so than other species of the area.

    [​IMG]

    Here's my Aegina stater:


    Oh right, it's still on my WANT list :)

    Congratulations on another stellar acquisition!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  10. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  11. Gil-galad

    Gil-galad I AM SPARTACUS

    Very nice coin, lots of detail on that one. I wonder how much a coin like that would cost?

    I see the coin weighs in at 12.01g. I wonder what the size of the coin is. I assume about similar to Bing's coin at 22mm?
     
  12. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I like them all! Even the one in TIF's post which looks like it hasn't been mounted on its flan yet.
     
    stevex6 likes this.
  13. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Fixed.

    AeginaRealTurtle3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  14. Gil-galad

    Gil-galad I AM SPARTACUS

    That image is not showing up and the view attachment link appears to be dead.
     
  15. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Refresh your screen, I was changing it when you clicked the first one.
     
  16. Gil-galad

    Gil-galad I AM SPARTACUS

    Oops, that's what I get for not waiting for longer. lol

    Now the turtle has it's own coin. Now gotta give it a name. lol
     
  17. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

  18. Them Staters is wild in these here parts.
    Resampled_2013-04-03_14-18-46_936.jpg
     
    Mikey Zee, Johndakerftw, TIF and 3 others like this.
  19. On a serious note, that is the best looking Aegina Stater I've seen
     
    Andres2 and Mikey Zee like this.
  20. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    I attended this auction along with my dealer, and purchased two of my 12 Caesars denarii at the auction (Nero and Otho). At the time, I was focused only on aurei and denarii and missed some coins that I now wish I had pursued.

    There were a number of insights I learned from this auction, which was very highly promoted and marketed by Goldberg as containing some of the best coins available for their type:

    (1) There can be a stratospheric price difference between an FDC or near-FDC coin that is the best of its type vs. an EF coin. Examples of these are the Galba aureus that hammered for $390,000 and the Vitellius aureus that went for $200,000.

    (2) Some bidders were clearly willing to bid whatever price was necessary to win the coin they wanted. It would have been no use bidding against them on these coins since inevitably someone has deeper pockets than you have.

    (3) It's possible to get caught up in a bidding war and overbid for a coin, even a great coin, except that... you never really know if you overbid. When a coin is widely recognized as the best, or one of the best, of its type, how can you evaluate whether or not you overbid? Until the coin is resold at a later date, it's impossible to know this.

    It was a very enjoyable auction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
    Mikey Zee likes this.
  21. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    oh man....that is one SWEEEEEET turtle.

    drop it turtle boy!



    seriously, that is just stunning!
     
    Johndakerftw and stevex6 like this.
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