Advice on the Authenticity of this Tribute Penny

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Bryan Doerr, May 21, 2019.

  1. Bryan Doerr

    Bryan Doerr New Member

    Hi,

    Without checking here first, I purchased this Tribute Penny. My problem with it is that it doesn't seem to fit any of the TP variations, i.e., the throne legs, the lines under the throne, the lack of a footstool, which are all characteristics found in TPs seem to be in the wrong combination. Also, Pax looks nude from the waist up which seems weird. Advice from this forum would be seriously appreciated as I can appeal the seller.

    Thanks,
    Bryan S20190520_005.jpg S20190520_006.jpg
     
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper Supporter

    That's an odd Tiberius portrait. How much does it weigh? Not sure what to think of it except I think Tiberius looks odd.

    Here's mine which I am quite sure is genuine considering I purchased it from FORVM

    87764q00 (3).jpg
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  4. Bryan Doerr

    Bryan Doerr New Member

    Hi Sallent, thanks for your reply. Tiberius might be off, but it might also be a lighting problem with the picture of the coin. My coin weighs about 3.3g.
     
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I cannot be certain from the image, but like @Sallent, I find it looks odd. This coin type is faked so much, it pays to "know the seller" as well as the coin. Where did you acquire it if I may ask?

    Here is my only example, purchased from a reputable seller I happen to know. Notice a couple of things in comparison to your coin. The stool, the obvious clothing on Pax, and the weight difference. All of which can be explained by an expert, which I am not.
    Tiberius 6.jpg
    TIBERIUS
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG AVGVSTVS, laureate head right
    REVERSE: PONTIF MAXIM, Livia, as Pax, holding long sceptre & olive branch, seated right on throne with ornate legs, single line below
    Lugdunum 14-37 AD
    3.75g, 19mm
    RIC 30, RSC 16a, BMC 48
     
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  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    So many of these were struck for so many years that, stylistically, they can be all over the map. Mine is heavier:

    [​IMG]

    Tiberius, AD 14-37.
    Roman AR Denarius; 3.87 g, 18.5 mm.
    Lugdunum, AD 16-37.
    Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS, laureate head, right.
    Rev: PONTIF MAXIM, Livia, as pax, seated right, holding long olive branch and inverted spear; legs of chair ornate, triple line below.
    Refs: RIC 28; BMCRE 45; RCV 1763 var.
     
  7. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper Supporter

    True, the portraits do vary a lot....still doesn't change the fact I've never seen one quite like that. Unless some expert can look at it and recognize some portrait variation that is uncommon but backed up by research, I can't help but wonder if a Bulgarian celator crafted the OP coin in his basement 20 years ago.
     
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Take a look at @Roman Collector's coin. There are a lot of differences between his and my coin, not to mention yours. I have no idea what you paid, but for peace of mind, I think I would send this off to David Sear for authentication. BTW, have you checked the fake databases to see if there is a match? Wishing you the best outcome.

    Bing
     
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  9. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight I AM the Senate! Supporter

    Here’s my authentic example.

    Tiberius, Roman Empire
    AR denarius
    Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS, laureate head right
    Rev: PONTIF MAXIM, Livia (as Pax) seated right, holding long scepter in her right hand and olive branch in her left; plain chair legs
    Mint: Lugdunum
    Date: 14-37 AD
    Ref: RIC 26

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I’m not troubled by the portrait and don’t see immediate, obvious red flags. But as has been noted, this is a coin that is often faked. If you do not have total confidence in the seller, I would have the coin examined in hand by somebody who had great familiarity with these, or I would have it authenticated by a reputable service. Good luck. I hope it’s real. It’s an attractive coin.
     
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  11. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    Nothing suspicious looking in the photo.

    Barry Murphy
     
  12. Bryan Doerr

    Bryan Doerr New Member

    Thank you all again for lending your expertise to my question. I sincerely appreciate your opinions and commentary. I may indeed follow up with David Sear to get another opinion and if I do, I will post back to this thread.
     
  13. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper Supporter

    If Barry Murphy says the portrait looks ok, I think you are ok. There's only probably one other expert that has more cachet than him, David Sear. But Barry Murphy is as good as they come as far as expert authenticators.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Once again I am forced to agree with @Sallent. If @Barry Murphy sees no problem, I would save myself the $50 sending it off to David Sear. Now if you want it slabbed, then send it off to NGC. That way Barry will get a good look at it. However, personally I dislike slabs. I want to hold history in my hands!!!! No offense intended Barry.
     
  15. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    I don't take any offense. I prefer to hold them myself.

    Barry
     
  16. Bryan Doerr

    Bryan Doerr New Member

    One of the hazards of being new - not knowing the sages on the board. My apologies to Barry for not realizing I was already getting the input I sought! Again, I appreciate everyone's input and am putting this concern to rest. I'm very happy with my Tribute Penny!
     
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