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<p>[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4590921, member: 110350"]As I'm sure you're aware, many of the supposedly ancient and early medieval Jewish inscriptions (including tombstone epitaphs) from the Crimea have been proven to be forgeries, in which the Karaite Abraham Firkowicz was almost certainly involved, in the 1840s. See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Firkovich" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Firkovich" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Firkovich</a>. See also <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=M5oNKrvYWZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Jewish+%22firkowicz%22+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=jB2BMFpBDO&sig=ACfU3U1uWP-9SztyWvZgZr1hyvbLwhupqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZg56umaDqAhVsl3IEHQ2mDDkQ6AEwB3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20%22firkowicz%22%20crimea%20forgeries&f=false" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://books.google.com/books?id=M5oNKrvYWZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Jewish+%22firkowicz%22+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=jB2BMFpBDO&sig=ACfU3U1uWP-9SztyWvZgZr1hyvbLwhupqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZg56umaDqAhVsl3IEHQ2mDDkQ6AEwB3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20%22firkowicz%22%20crimea%20forgeries&f=false" rel="nofollow">https://books.google.com/books?id=M5oNKrvYWZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Jewish+"firkowicz"+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=jB2BMFpBDO&sig=ACfU3U1uWP-9SztyWvZgZr1hyvbLwhupqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZg56umaDqAhVsl3IEHQ2mDDkQ6AEwB3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish "firkowicz" crimea forgeries&f=false</a> and <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=suJTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=Jewish+tombstones+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=D9b1Q108lJ&sig=ACfU3U3o0KWmEbsUY5H1g918Xi-fjvnGqQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7-X7l6DqAhXtl3IEHcUYAKIQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20tombstones%20crimea%20forgeries&f=false" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://books.google.com/books?id=suJTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=Jewish+tombstones+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=D9b1Q108lJ&sig=ACfU3U3o0KWmEbsUY5H1g918Xi-fjvnGqQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7-X7l6DqAhXtl3IEHcUYAKIQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20tombstones%20crimea%20forgeries&f=false" rel="nofollow">https://books.google.com/books?id=suJTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=Jewish+tombstones+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=D9b1Q108lJ&sig=ACfU3U3o0KWmEbsUY5H1g918Xi-fjvnGqQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7-X7l6DqAhXtl3IEHcUYAKIQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish tombstones crimea forgeries&f=false</a>. (Although there were, in fact, Jews living in the Crimea in classical times, and Byzantine Jews also later settled there.)</p><p><br /></p><p>And yes, there's a contention that the Krymchaks -- Jews of Turkic origin living in Crimea -- and/or the Crimean Karaites (also of Turkic origin) are descended from the Khazars. See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krymchaks" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krymchaks" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krymchaks</a>. As you said, that has nothing to do with the Ashkenazim. In any event, as the Wikipedia article indicates, a Khazar origin certainly isn't necessary to explain the presence of Turkic Jews in Crimea, and their presence doesn't prove anything about the Khazars. Also, I hold to my position that (to the best of my knowledge) no Judaic objects or other evidence of Judaism have been discovered in known Khazar graves or in other Khazar archaeological excavations. Findings in Crimea are irrelevant.</p><p><br /></p><p>I think we've gotten very far afield from the original topic, and that there's probably not much point continuing the discussion. I've said what I have to say, and, to be honest, the issue of the origin of the various Crimean Jews, while certainly interesting, isn't that important to me one way or the other![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4590921, member: 110350"]As I'm sure you're aware, many of the supposedly ancient and early medieval Jewish inscriptions (including tombstone epitaphs) from the Crimea have been proven to be forgeries, in which the Karaite Abraham Firkowicz was almost certainly involved, in the 1840s. See [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Firkovich[/URL]. See also [URL='https://books.google.com/books?id=M5oNKrvYWZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Jewish+%22firkowicz%22+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=jB2BMFpBDO&sig=ACfU3U1uWP-9SztyWvZgZr1hyvbLwhupqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZg56umaDqAhVsl3IEHQ2mDDkQ6AEwB3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20%22firkowicz%22%20crimea%20forgeries&f=false']https://books.google.com/books?id=M5oNKrvYWZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Jewish+"firkowicz"+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=jB2BMFpBDO&sig=ACfU3U1uWP-9SztyWvZgZr1hyvbLwhupqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZg56umaDqAhVsl3IEHQ2mDDkQ6AEwB3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish "firkowicz" crimea forgeries&f=false[/URL] and [URL='https://books.google.com/books?id=suJTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=Jewish+tombstones+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=D9b1Q108lJ&sig=ACfU3U3o0KWmEbsUY5H1g918Xi-fjvnGqQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7-X7l6DqAhXtl3IEHcUYAKIQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish%20tombstones%20crimea%20forgeries&f=false']https://books.google.com/books?id=suJTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=Jewish+tombstones+crimea+forgeries&source=bl&ots=D9b1Q108lJ&sig=ACfU3U3o0KWmEbsUY5H1g918Xi-fjvnGqQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7-X7l6DqAhXtl3IEHcUYAKIQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Jewish tombstones crimea forgeries&f=false[/URL]. (Although there were, in fact, Jews living in the Crimea in classical times, and Byzantine Jews also later settled there.) And yes, there's a contention that the Krymchaks -- Jews of Turkic origin living in Crimea -- and/or the Crimean Karaites (also of Turkic origin) are descended from the Khazars. See [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krymchaks[/URL]. As you said, that has nothing to do with the Ashkenazim. In any event, as the Wikipedia article indicates, a Khazar origin certainly isn't necessary to explain the presence of Turkic Jews in Crimea, and their presence doesn't prove anything about the Khazars. Also, I hold to my position that (to the best of my knowledge) no Judaic objects or other evidence of Judaism have been discovered in known Khazar graves or in other Khazar archaeological excavations. Findings in Crimea are irrelevant. I think we've gotten very far afield from the original topic, and that there's probably not much point continuing the discussion. I've said what I have to say, and, to be honest, the issue of the origin of the various Crimean Jews, while certainly interesting, isn't that important to me one way or the other![/QUOTE]
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A very rare coin of the Khazars
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