A Tale of Two Tomans: help me select my next addition to the "Eclectic Box"

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Sep 30, 2017.

?

Which do you like better, assuming either could be bought for the same price?

  1. Coin 1 (#c57)

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. Coin 2 (#c63)

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  3. I don't know anything about these but I lean towards Coin 1 (#c57)

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. I don't know anything about these but I lean towards Coin 2 (#c63)

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  5. I wouldn't begin to know how to choose one of these

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  6. I don't like these two. You should find a different AH 1233 Persian toman.

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  7. I don't like these at all. You should buy an entirely different type of coin.

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  8. I like cheesy nachos with lots of peppers on 'em.

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  9. I think LordM is nuts to include nachos as a poll option instead of BACON!!!

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I'd definitely go for 1. I don't think you have to worry about a removed mount, it's just a typically imperfect flan :)
     
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  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I think that's the one I'm gonna go for. I just like it better overall, despite the worry about the possible mount, which will hopefully prove to be unfounded.

    Will probably pull the trigger Friday.
     
  4. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I personally would not be concerned with "details" grades for coins that were hand hammered hundreds of years ago. I think the US collectors are way to focused with tiny details as it is. If 99% of the coin was not affected by the mount, does it matter any more?

    If you are worried about ever reselling because your collecting plan is to rotate through interesting coins over time (a perfectly valid plan) then maybe it is more of a concern.

    I liked the overall design of #1 better.
     
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  5. Stork

    Stork I deliver

    I think this was a singularly unhelpful (to you) poll! At the moment the combined votes for #1=6. For #2=6. Go eat some bacon. As a side note someone dropped off 'fancy donuts' (ie not Krispy Kreme) at work last weekend. One of the choices was maple glazed with bacon on top.

    More seriously, Theodosius brings up an interesting point. Do you ever make your Box selections with an eye towards future trading or swapping? Or, use that as a tiebreaker if looking at two coins such as this?

    edited to add: And, re-reading the thread. Perhaps PCGS made a mistake in calling out a mount on the other coin. If it's a no-problem to your eye, does it matter what the plastic says? Or, would you consider a second opinion from NGC? I know you have an allergy to the white prongs, but perhaps there is room to make an exception (or at least a chance at a straight grade if you feel you need to sell that one).
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  6. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

    Since the date AH 1233 is important, I would prefer number 1 as the date is clearer than on number 2.

    It would not bother me if the coin had done service as jewelry.

    Good luck with your decision.

    :)
     
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  7. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I had pretty much made up my mind to buy Coin #1, and relayed this decision to Najaf, the dealer, but he replied with this bit of info:
    (I had mentioned to him that I was going to be submitting the coin and wanted to avoid a "problem" designation.)

    So it appears my suspicions of a possible mount removal on Coin #1 were not unfounded. I must give credit to Najaf for his candor and honesty. I'm now waiting to hear back from him on whether he found a third candidate with the AH 1233 date. If I understood our conversation so far, I do think he's going to let me buy at the $350 sale price (+ S&H and fees), regardless of which coin it ends up being.

    So it appears I might be buying Coin #2 from the OP, or maybe an as-yet unseen third coin.

    Coin #1 appealed to me for the reasons previously mentioned, but if it's unlikely to straight-grade, I'll give it a pass, since I'm trying to avoid "details" graded "problem" coins in the Eclectic Box. (However, both my pieces of medieval hammered gold presently in the set ended up with "details" grades, which is why I'm a bit gun-shy on hammered gold at the moment, since my track record is 0 for 2 in that category so far.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  8. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I did rather jinx myself by including the nonsense bacon option in the poll, but people have come to expect that, so I was forced by tradition. ;)

    Yes, I do always try to keep an eye on resale potential, because even though I'm a collector first and swapper/flipper second, my set is a rotating door, and my hold time on coins varies from a year or two to a decade or more. I'm not a "hold onto them for life" kind of collector, though there are some I do intend to hold for a very long time.

    I do intend to get a second opinion from NGC on my two hammered gold medievals which PCGS gave "details" grades to. The Gelderland florin should have a reasonable chance at a straight grade, in my opinion. In retrospect, I do now see why PCGS dinged the Brabant Carolus d'or for mount removal, and I suspect NGC will as well, but I still intend to try it with them.

    I have no aversion to NGC itself, despite my hating their white prongs that hang over the coins and interfere with photography. Since I have TrueViews of both these pieces from PCGS now, if NGC grades them, that's fine- I will use the basic coin images from the PCGS TrueViews in my "shadowbox" Photoshop template, without the PCGS cert numbers. This is, after all, what I do with my ancients, which I buy raw and get good photos of before they go into the NGC plastic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  9. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    Is the coin sharper, or is the photo sharper? I don't know, and I know nothing about these coins, but my first impression was that the second photo was murkier (maybe lower resolution?) than the first one.
     
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  10. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Same seller, same site, so I'm assuming pretty equal photo quality.
     
  11. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Well-Known Member

    Hi @lordmarcovan, in that case, I think @Curtisimo' s suggestion of having two votes is a practical one. I wonder if it's possible. I'm going to try to vote again and see.

    Edited: No...I can only change my vote.
     
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  12. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I too assumed that the photo quality might have been some of the difference in the sharpness of the strike. I think #2 still has a nice strike but the beading around the edge shows that #1 is better in that area.

    I still think I prefer #2. Which did you end up going with @lordmarcovan? Or are you still deciding?
     
  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I have not yet heard back from the dealer, Najaf, who was going to check his inventory for other pieces dated AH 1233.

    It will be Coin #2 or an as-yet-unseen Coin #3.

    I was ready to pounce on Coin #1 but the seller was honest and forthcoming enough to confirm my suspicions/concerns that it has an edge problem and is therefore not an ideal candidate for slabbing (though it is an otherwise lovely coin in most other aspects).

    Note to self: keep an eye on autocorrect, since it likes to change "slabbing" to stabbing. :nailbiting:
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
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  14. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    And I have just bought one of these, finally.

    The choice, as it happened, came down to neither Coin 1 nor Coin 2 from the original post.

    The same seller offered me three more choices, thereby also adding the options of Coins 3... 4... and 5:

    812.jpg

    I ended up deciding on what we'll call "Coin 3", which is the leftmost coin in the trio above.

    "Coin 4" (the middle coin in the photo above) was a very close second in my estimation.

    Really, there doesn't seem to have been anything wrong with "Coin 5" (the rightmost example above), either. It appears to be a touch smaller but has a nice round flan.

    It was mostly strike that influenced my decision here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  15. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I think you made a good a good choice. I like the stronger strike as well.
     
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  16. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    beautiful and interesting coins and they are made of gold.
     
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  17. Stork

    Stork I deliver

    Before I read the whole post I'd picked #3 too. They are all lovely though.
     
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  18. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Amazing choice, of the three that's the one I would choose too.
     
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  19. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    This just in: PCGS has graded the coin I purchased MS62!

    This is cause for celebration, as I was expecting a high AU grade. :)

    Below is the temporary (seller's) image I've been using. As of this post the new TrueViews have not been added to the cert page just yet. I expect they'll appear in another 24-48 hours.

    This is now population 3/0; in other words, tied with two other coins for finest graded, with none higher. (That isn't particularly surprising, though, since PCGS probably doesn't receive very many submissions of these. I have a lot of low-pop coins in my collection, since I tend to walk the slightly esoteric "roads less traveled".)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  20. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Well-Known Member

    It is gorgeous, @lordmarcovan. Congratulations on acquiring this beauty and also on the grading! So, now it is behind plastic and you won’t be able to touch it? But at least you got to hold it when you first got it. I understand your thinking on this and respect it, but, still....(sigh). I would always want to feel the goldness.


    One question more... What I thought was beading on this coin is actually little round indentations and not raised dots? Waaait. It must be my eyes. Now they look raised again. Whew!
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  21. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Congratulations! Beautiful coin with a fitting grade. ;)


    Thanks,
    Jacob
     
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