A Roman Republican bronze overstrike from the Second Punic War

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by red_spork, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    The coin that I'm sharing today is part of my recent Roman Republican buying spree that I've funded by selling off my US collection, as well as a handful of medievals and ancients. Many auction listings list these coins under Crawford 56/4, and while these types are stylistically and chronologically linked to the Crawford 56 series, at 5.75 grams(giving an as of ~18 grams), this triens is simply too light to be a part of that series, which were struck at an as standard starting out around 56 grams and declining to 30 or so grams. Additionally, you can see in Minerva's chin and neck that this coin is overstruck on some other kind of coin, though there is not enough detail to determine the exact undertype. The seller that I bought this from made note of the fact that this coin was from an anonymous light series that wasn't identified by Crawford, but the only information he had was from the notes on a similarly lightweight coin that was part of the first RBW sale.

    Luckily, Andrew McCabe recently published his paper "The Anonymous Struck Bronze Coinage of the Roman Republic: a Provisional Arrangement" online(previously only available in Essays Russo) which sheds quite a bit of light on these issues. In the paper, McCabe classifies coins of this style and weight as "group H1" which he convincingly argues are overstrikes on bronzes of Rome's vanquished enemies in Southern Italy, Sardinia or Sicily(as well as occasional Roman coins) which were minted near the end of the Second Punic war. For those wanting to read more, the full paper is available at: https://www.academia.edu/15757344/A...f_Roberto_Russo_Witschonke_van_Alfen_eds_2013 . I believe that it requires creating a free account to access, but it is well worth it. On top of the really great history behind this coin, it has good provenance from a famous collector. This coin was previously sold at Italo Vecchi Sale 3 in September of 1996, which was the sale of the late numismatist and dealer Giorgio Fallani, whose family still runs a gallery in Rome. AncientCoinGuru was even nice enough to scan a copy of the plates from Vecchi 3 for me while I was waiting on this to ship out and I decided I liked the plates so much that I ended up buying a copy of the catalog for my own library.

    NavillePic.jpg

    Roman Republic Æ Triens(20.5mm, 5.75g), anonymous, after 211 BC. Helmeted head of Minerva right; above, four pellets / ROMA Prow right; below four pellets. Crawford cf. 56/4. McCabe group H1(Half-weight fractions, overstrikes on Punic bronzes). Ex. Vecchi Sale 3, lot 124.

    Feel free to post any Second Punic War era Republican coins(or those of Rome's enemies).
     
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  3. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Very nice, RS. I unfortunately don't have any coins that even come close to yours, date wise.

    Congrats!
     
  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Good stuff, Spork... handsome and interesting coin. I don't have a triens yet, but recently picked up this quadrans.

    upload_2015-10-6_14-23-45.png
    ROMAN REPUBLIC
    Anonymous, after 211 BC
    AE Quadrans
    6.14g, 21.8mm
    Rome mint
    Crawford 56/5
    O: Head of young Hercules right, wearing lion's skin headdress, three pellets behind.
    R: ROMA, prow of galley right, three pellets below.
    Ex RBW Collection
     
  5. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Very interesting report Red_Spork and it's neat you found the auction catalog too. I appreciate the link, I'll have to check it out when I get home.

    Enemy of Rome?
    [​IMG]
    Zeugitana, Carthage, BC 300 - 264
    AE, 4.78g, 19mm; 2h
    Obv.: Head of Tanit left, wreathed in corn
    Rev.: Horsehead right
    Ref.: Sear #6524
     
  6. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I LOVE that ae Triens!!!!! CONGRATS!!!!

    Wonderful posts Guys!!! And I love your narrative as well Red_Spork.

    This early era of Rome is one I haven't entered into as yet....despite some recent attempts at bidding----I don't even have a Carthage era coin, regardless of my avatar LOL

    So far I'm still working my way back to those times (RR denari), so I should be posting a few of those very early bronzes some time as the new year arrives...

    Hmmm, I wonder what 'Al' and the others will post.
     
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  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    That's a very nice triens-- in much better condition that most I've seen in recent auctions. Congrats :)

    Here's a Roman victoriatus from the time of the Second Punic War:

    [​IMG]
    Roman Republic, anonymous AR victoriatus
    211-208 BCE, Sicily mint?
    15 mm, 3.2 gm
    Obv: laureate head of Jupiter right
    Rev: Victory standing right, erecting (crowning?) trophy; ROMA in exergue
    Ref: Crawford 67/1, BMC 137?

    ...and a coin from their enemy, struck shortly after the end of the Second Punic War:

    [​IMG]
    ZEUGITANA, Carthage
    early 2nd century BCE
    AE 15-shekels, 45 mm, 95 gm
    Obv: wreathed head of Tanit left
    Rev: horse standing right, left foreleg up; solar disk with uraei above
    Ref: Alexandropoulos J (2000) Les monnaies de l'Afrique Antique, 103;
    Müller L (1861) Numismatique de L'Ancienne Afrique, 131;
    Luynes 3782;
    Jenkins GK and Lewis RB (1963) Carthaginian Gold and Electrum Coins. Royal Numismatic Society, London, pl. 28 12
    Graded Fine by NGC Ancients (strike 5/5, surfaces 2/5)
     
  8. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    Very nice indeed.

    Anonymous, As, Rome, 157/156 BC Janus I Galley I Roma
    Reference.
    BMC 217; Crawford 56/2.; Sydenham 143

    Obv:
    Laureate and bearded head of Janus above, I.

    Rev: Prow of galley right; above, I. below, ROMA

    29.87 gr
    33 mm
    422 Greek BMC217.jpg
     
  9. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Gorgeous addition, red_spork (very cool overstrike) ...

    Ummm, I have a couple of cool Anonymous Roman Rebublic AE As examples ...


    Anonymous AE As Fly.jpg Anonymous Roman Republican Janus.jpg
     
  10. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Well, I was just 'reminded' of my Pompey Janiform---but all those 'types' are already posted and far better than mine, not to mention of a later date than those on the thread.

    I hope I can wait until next year to buy any of these ----that seems to be the popular consensus in my household. LOL
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  11. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Beautiful coins all. Funnily enough, I don't have any examples of the other RR denominations shown(yet) but I'll add in a couple more of mine that fit the theme since I love all things Second Punic War.

    RedSporkSemiuncia.jpg
    Thanks TIF for making my picture better a while back!
    Roman republic Æ Semuncia(5.50g), anonymous. 217-215 BC. Head of Mercury right, wearing winged petasos / Prow right; ROMA above. Crawford 38/7; Sydenham 87.

    (A little bit older, but still relevant)
    carthageAE.jpg
    Zeugitania, Carthage. Ca. 400-350 B.C. Æ unit (15.3 mm, 2.77 g, 8 h). Wreathed head of Tanit left, wearing earring and necklace / Horse standing right; palm tree behind; two pellets to right. MAA 18a
     
  12. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector


    This 45 mm coin is yummy. :)
     
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  13. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Well-Known Member

    Great find! Thanks for the background you have provided for the coin. I have most of the Vecchi catalogs which feature Roman Republican coinage, and I actively try to purchase coins from the catalogs. Congratulations on your purchase!!

    I have 2 post-reform triens to share. One is 56/4 (normal weight), but one is from group H, cataloged as 85/4 by Crawford.

    Triens obv Coin Talk.jpg Triens rev.JPG
    ROMAN REPUBLIC
    Anonymous, 211-206 BC
    AE Triens 12.0gm - 25mm
    Obv: Head of Minerva r. in crested Corinthian helmet, 4 pellets above
    Rx: prow of galley right, 4 pellets below, ROMA above
    Ref: Crawford 56/4

    RR H series.jpg

    ROMAN REPUBLIC
    Anonymous, 211-206 BC
    H Series. AE Triends 7.67 gm - 24.03 mm
    Obv: Hd of Minerva r wearing crested Corinthian helmet, four pellets above. Rx: ROMA above prow to the right. Four pellets beneath. H before prow.
    Ref: Crawford 85/4
     
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  14. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Very nice triens-es(is that the correct plural?). I'd like to pick up a few more of Vecchi's RR catalogs myself. Any you specifically recommend? Currently this is the only one I know to have come from one of his sales but I doubt it'll be my last.
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I have a few AE bronzes from the Great Hannibal War, and one is a Triens:

    upload_2015-10-23_16-5-9.png
    upload_2015-10-23_16-5-40.png
    Roman Republic
    Anonymous AE As
    After 211 BCE
    32.4mm, 42.26g
    Rome mint
    OBV: Laureate head of Janus, above I
    REV: Prow r, above I, ROMA below
    Crawford 56/2
     
  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    upload_2015-10-23_16-9-52.png
    upload_2015-10-23_16-10-18.png
    Roman Republic
    Anonymous AE Triens (1/3 As...4 Uncia)
    210 BCE
    23.8mm, 9.7g
    OBV: Helmeted Minerva r, 4 Pellets above
    REV: ROMA above Prow
    Crawford 85/4
     
  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    upload_2015-10-23_16-13-20.png
    upload_2015-10-23_16-13-48.png
    Roman Republic
    Anonymous (Semilibral) AE Uncia (1/12 As)
    217-215 BCE
    24.6mm, 8.08g
    OBV: Head of Roma l, wearing Attic helmet, pellet behind
    REV: Prow r, ROMA above, pellet below
    Crawford 38/6
     
  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    upload_2015-10-23_16-17-18.png upload_2015-10-23_16-17-45.png
    Roman Republic
    Anonymous (Semilibral) AE Quartuncia (1/48 As)
    Rome mint
    217-215 BCE
    15.5mm, 3.17g
    OBV: Head of Roma r,wearing Attic helmet
    REV: Prow r, ROMA above
    Crawford 38/8
     
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  19. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Really nice bronzes Alegandron, especially the as, but I think this one may be misattributed. 85 is the "H" series and should have an "H" to the right of the prow as Ancientcoinguru's example does.
     
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  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Great...so mine is:
    Anonymous, 211-206 BC
    AE Triens
    Obv: Head of Minerva r. in crested Corinthian helmet, 4 pellets above
    Rx: prow of galley right, 4 pellets below, ROMA above
    Ref: Crawford 56/4 ???
    Thanks for the attribute!
     
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  21. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    That's likely correct. I'll try to take a quick look later and verify against Crawford when I'm home from work.
     
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