A Registry Collection Strategy----Short Sets

Well there is a lot of dark Jefferson also!!

Link to auction search!!

1938-D PCGS MS67
1950-D PCGS MS67

 

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Those ain't dark, IMO. The 38-d is close.

 

Schatzy, I just looked through the first 200 jeffersons in the link you posted. I didn't see a single CuNi example that I would consider dark. The ones you posted were probably #1 and #2 in that continuum but still short of the darkness of the original Washie.

The other one that caught my eye was this one:

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=68051&Lot_No=61202

Not coincidentally, it's silver. ...Mike

p.s. the vast majority of the Jeffs that appear dark in the archive-list photos are just poorly lit photographs/scans. you have to take a look at the larger photos to be sure, and it's easy to be fooled by the icon photos and their small size.

 

Here's another related point to this discussoin.... Dark coins are dark in most cases because the toning has eaten into and/or muted the luster of a coin. Since luster plays such a huge part in the way TPGs grade business struck moderns, a dark coin is penalized. I believe this is the real root cause of the observation concerning 67s and PCGS grading.

Said more plainly, dark coins don't have the luster (and eye appeal) generally required to achieve TPG 67 and above grades in 20th century coins.

 

Mike,

I agree with what you are saying which is why I didn't argue with you from jump street. However, I think you are giving PCGS just a little more credit than they deserve. I will admit that NGC is more forgiving of dark coins in high grades than PCGS, but the difference is minimal IMO. Both TPG's will penalize coins that are so deeply toned that the luster is muted, not just PCGS.

Furthermore, I would hope that the original Washington that I posted in this thread is more appealing in hand than in the photo, but no matter how much better it is, it still won't compare to the star coin in any aspect of grading.

Jefferson will undoubtedly have the lowest percentage, but I expect that Roosevelts will have the highest percentage. They are often found deeply toned, with muted luster, in very high grades, by both TPG's.

 

I believe both TPGs are pretty tough on the darker coins, but I agree, PCGS does seem to be a little tougher on dark coins than NGC.

One other variable I just thought about; I definitely think the dipped factor may come into play. What I mean is, I think the higher grade coins are more likely to be dipped before a submission to a tpg than a lower grade coin. For example, you might have a 67 and say this "coin really doesn't have any hits on it", so you dip it to because it becomes easier to see the clean fields. While with the lower grade coins the darker toning may help hid some of the hits.

Just a thought, it can't really be proven, but I think it may play a role.

 

This seems dead on to me. "Dark lustrous" is not a description you will often see or for that matter "Deeply toned, booming luster".

 

Lehigh, I'm mot necessarily arguing PCGS is better/different from NGC -- that was a point I believe you brought to the fore. The only reason I'm speaking to PCGS is because when I was collecting these coins, I focused on them, i.e. I have more experience looking at PCGS moderns.

 

I have a few coins that meet this description, not coincidentally, they are graded 64 or 65 -- which was kind of the point I was trying to make.

 

I hope you all don't mind me bringing this thread back.

This was a very good post for me to read, thanks for making it Lehigh.
Since I am on a budget, collecting is very hard at some times. Sure, I have to settle for lower grades than the grades I would like, but I try never to sacrifice the eye appeal of the coins I buy. For example, my morgan set. Now that I have completed the key dates in MS 64, and some in 65, I am having to settle with 63's for some of the more moderate dates, due to my budget. I always try to buy a coin that is unique or has good eye appeal.

Maybe after I graduate college and get a job I can upgrade the grades of some of my coins, but I would have to see right coins in order to do so.

Thanks again for the thread,
LouieLot