Most people on this board have a different definition of "old" than the general population. This coin, though, is very old even in ancient coin collector terms: Kings of Lydia, under King Croesus, AR ⅙ stater, 565/53–550/39 BC. Obv: confronted foreparts of lion and bull. Rev: two incuse square punches of unequal size. 8–11mm, 1.76g. Ref: Berk 25; SNG Kayhan 1019; Sunrise 13. Due to the numismatic importance of this series as well as the mythology surrounding King Croesus, I had wanted an example of this type for my collection for a long time. My coin is a silver 1/6th stater with great detail and attractive black toning that I unfortunately find very hard to photograph. Legend often credits Croesus, the last king of Lydia, with the invention of minted money. That certainly is false. Though coinage was indeed invented in Lydia, coins struck from electrum were first introduced in the mid-7th century, abouth 100 years before Croesus' reign. Croesus was the first, though, to mint pure gold coins and introduce a bimetallic monetary system. Croeseid coinage is based on a gold and silver stater. Both staters initially weighed 10.75 g each, though the gold stater was soon reduced to about 8.1g. Silver fractions range from sigloi or half-staters (5.37g) and 1/3 staters (3.58g) to 1/24 staters (0.45g). Ten silver staters were valued at one light gold stater, corresponding to an exchange rate of gold to silver of 1:13.33. All of Croesus coins show the same iconic design: The foreparts of a lion and a bull facing each other. Different interpretations of this motif have been proposed: The animals might represent the sun and moon, spring and winter, fertility and strength, Asia Minor and Europe, Lydia and Phrygia, or Zeus and Baal. As of now, none of these interpretations is generally accepted. Lydia during the reign of Croesus and before the Persian conquest After having been outbid at auction several times, I saw my chance to aquire a Croesus coin when a medium-sized auction house (Teutoburger) offered what I assume to be an estate collection in several large lots. In one of these lots, comprised of 11 Greek silver coins, I spotted a Croeseid fraction accompanied by a 1970/80s auction ticket from the well-known firm Münz Zentrum Albrecht&Hoffmann. I decided to bid high on this lot and won it in the end. That absolutely blew my coin budget for the rest of the year but was totally worth it. To give you a glimpse of what else was in the lot, here is a quick group shot. Expect to see write-ups on some of these coins soon! Please post your own Croeseids or other "really old" coins!
@Orielensis Beautiful specimen! Helpful write-up! Thanks! I have a 1/3rd stater: Date: ca. 540-525 BCE. Mint: Lydia, Sardis. Denomination: Heavy 1/3rd Stater (Trite); or possibly 1/2 Babylonian shekel. Obv.: Forepart of lion facing right, forepart of bull facing left, in confrontation. Rev.: No design; dual rectangular incuse punch indention of different size. Diameter: 15.6 mm. x 12.7 mm. x 4.6 mm. Weight: 3.94 gr. Attrib.: Nimchuk A/B (early period). Rosen 666. SNG Cop 456. BMFA 2071. Berk 24. re: The weight of my example... Under the Babylonian weight system a shekel weight would be just over 8 grams. As this example weighs 3.94 grams it would be a slightly underweight one-half Babylonian shekel. To this point it is worth noting that the surmised 540-525 BCE dating of this coin would coincide with the Persian entry into Babylon and its economy. However, alternatively, this coin may be a 12% overweight example of a one-third stater on the standard Croeseid system. (A thorough research of historical auction listings for this type revealed examples ranged from as low as 2.80 grams to as heavy as 4.08 grams.) Overweight one-third staters of this type have been termed as “heavy” or “massive” and are assigned by some into an early period of one-third stater production.
Wow, that is very awesome, & the whole lot is fantastic...I like your strategy! As for... there are people on the US Coins Forum who think 1986 is old!
Kroisos Ar siglos (Half stater) 560-546 BC Obv. Forepart of a lion attacking forepart of a bull. Rv Two square punches. Flattened reverse Sear 3420 5.33 grms 21 mm This coin was struck sometime after the flans were flattened probably before the coin was struck. This procedure occurs sometime during the reign of Kroisos though it is not clear as to when. One can clearly see the difference when comparing my coin with those of @philologus_1 and @Orielensis What is particularly noteworthy is that some of the Electrum Trites of Alyattes have undergone similar treatment suggesting that even after the initiation of the gold and silver coinage by Kroisos the electrum trite continued to be struck.
That is really OLD even to ancients standards. A coin I have from a similar generation but younger IONIA, Phokaia. Circa 521-478 BC. AR Tetartemorion. Head of griffin left / Incuse punch. Cf. SNG Kayhan 514–6 (hemidrachms) and 1428 (diobol). It is possible that this issue may belong to Abdera or Teos, both of which also issued early silver coins with griffins on the obverse. 0,18 g, 7 mm
Personally, this was a “have to have”! India - Shakya Janapada AR 5-Shana 6th-5th Century BCE 25mm x 21mm, 7.05g Obv: Central Pentagonal punch plus several banker's marks Rev: Blank Ref: Hirano Type I.8.29 19 known. Coinage from the Ghaghara Gandak River region Minted in the Shakya Janaprada during Siddhārtha Gautama's (Later the Buddha) lifetime while he was prince, and under the authority of his father as King
Try putting something very small under the lower edge thus tipping the coin up just a little bit so more light bounces back to the camera. Sometimes I am shocked by the difference a very small angle will make. Mine is also a 1/6 but rough. I really would like a smoothly worn full stater.
Fantastic coin, @Orielensis! The bull and lion are unusually clear. I'd love to acquire various coins of Croesus but so far have none so instead I'll post a few other oldies. KINGS OF LYDIA, temp. Ardys - Alyattes c. 620s-564/53 BCE Electrum trite, 4.8 gm, 13.4 mm. Sardes mint. Obv: head of roaring lion right, sun with four rays on forehead Rev: two incuse square punches Ref: Weidauer Group XV, 64 LESBOS, Mytilene 521-478 BCE EL hekte, 10.5 mm, 2.6 gm Obv: forepart of winged boar right Rev: incuse head of lion left; rectangular punch behind Ref: Bodenstedt Em. 10; HGC 6, 935; SNG von Aulock –; Boston MFA 1678; BMC – IONIA, Samos 510-500 BCE AR drachm, 13.7 mm, 3.2 gm Obv: forepart of winged boar left Rev: facing lion scalp with dotted square, within incuse square Ref: SNG Cop 1673 MACEDONIA, uncertain c. 500 BCE AR trihemitetartemorion (trihemiobol), 5 mm, 0.26 gm Obv: monkey squatting left Rev: round shield or pellet within incuse square Ref: "Uncertain Thraco-Macedonian Coins, Part II", Nomismatika Khronika (1998, Tzamalis), 67 IONIA, Klazomenai 498-494 BCE AR drachm, 6.77 gm Obv: forepart of winged boar right Rev: incuse square, somewhat quadripartite Ref: Rosen 563; Jameson 1492; Asyut 615; Traité II 487; SNG Copenhagen 1-2) ex NFA MBS (18 October 1990), part of lot 310 IONIA, Klazomenai 499-494 BC AR diobol, 9mm, 1.2 g Obv: forepart of winged boar left Rev: incuse square Ref: Cf. BMC 9-10 (drachm); cf. Traité I 488 (drachm). VF, toned, porous. Very rare with boar left, apparently unpublished as a diobol
All I can say is Wow, really neat old coins. I do have some from India area about that old, let me look...600-321 BC pre Mauryan AR karshapana, so called "punch mark" type coin.
For everyone who didn't already know: Doug gives excellent photography advice. Thanks a lot! Changing the angle by putting a small piece of cardboard under the coin really improved my photography results. Compare this to the picture in the original post: These are all fantastic, but I especially like the Alyattes electrum trite. What a terrific coin! (For those not aware, this series is the direct predecessor to the Croeseid coinage.) That's very interesting. I wasn't aware of the difference between flattened and non-flattened flans in this series. Thanks for enlightening me! To keep this post visually appealing, I'm adding two more archaic Greek fractions. The first one is probably the most common "really old" coin. My example unfortunately suffers from a snout problem: Ionia, Milet, AR 1/12 stater, late 6th – early 5th c. BC. obv: forepart of roaring lion l. Rev: stellate pattern in incuse. 9.5mm, 0.85g. Ref: SNG Kayhan 476–482; SNG Copenhagen 955–951. Ex Harlan J. Berk, IL; Ex Frank S. Robinson, auction 106, lot 77. And here is a triobol from the Greek mainland that needs better photography: Phokis, Federal Coinage, triobol, ca. 490–485 BC. Obv: frontal bull's head. Rev: head of Artemis r. set diagonally in incuse square, Φ-O[-K-I] around. 13mm, 2.63g. Ref: see BCD Lokris–Phokis 189; see Williams 1972, no. 17.
My Miletos example of lion with stellate pattern/floral ornament (?) is worn, especially the obverse, but I am not bothered. Especially since the lion is facing right - usually I see them facing left. I am still amazed that we can hold in hand coins used 2500 years ago. I didn't know about them in October 2020 for example or I thought their prices are obscene. Ionia. Miletos circa 525-475 BC. Diobol AR 7 mm, 1,07 g Late 6th-early 5th century BC. Twelfth stater or diobol Head of roaring lion right. Rev. Star-shaped floral ornament within incuse square. Klein 426-427. SNG Kayhan 468-475. SNG Von Aulock 2082. Sear 3532
