A rather scarce Thessalonican or Thessaly-Epirus(?) trachy

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by seth77, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    This particular trachy could be assigned to either Manuel of the Komnenodoukai of Thessalonica (1230-1237) or to Michael II of the Komnenodoukai of Epirus-Arta (1236-1268) of the Greek Angelos faction.

    655820.jpg

    AE18x15x12mm, 1.02g, billon aspron trachy, Thessalonica (or Arta?) mint, cca. 1235/6 or 1237.
    O / AΓ/HOC / ΘEO/ΔP/O/C; Half-length bust of Saint Theodore, bearded and nimbate, wearing tunic, holding spear in r. hand and shield in l. hand.
    M[ANOVHΛ ΔEC - O A ΔM] (or similar legend for Michael II); Half-length bust of Despot left and half-length bust of military saint(?) (Demetrios?), holding between them sheathed sword pointing downwards. Manuel wears stemma, divitision, collar-piece and jeweled loros of simplified type. Military saint wears tunic, breastplate and sagion. In upper-center a semicircular cloud from which Manus Dei crowns the Despot.
    cf. DOC 8.2 Type F, p.576; Sear 2182/2233.



    A rare, late issue small module (on clipped flan) for Manuel. If actually Manuel.

    Manuel Komnenos-Doukas never assumed the full title of Emperor (basileus) but ruled Thessalonica as despot. During the later part of his reign, Michael II of Epirus begins his rise, effectively ruling by 1236 territories in Epirus, Thessaly and Thessalonica. After Manuel got deposed in 1237, Michael II became even more prominent.

    Considering the time frame, the historical context and the rarity of these coins, another possibility is that they were minted actually by Michael II, after (or even before Manuel's banishment in 1237), possibly at Arta, in his Epirote domain (cf. Bendall, NCirc 104/1, 1996, S. 3 ff. Nr. 3).

    It is also possible that both despotes shared this type in 1235 (as per DOC, which does not note the weaponry of Saint Theodore nor the exact legends) to 1237(?) as per Bendall. If actually an issue of Michael II of Epirus, it should be Sear 2233; cf. Sommer, MBR 76.1 and unrecorded in DOC.

    Similar examples here and here.

    From the Despot Collection here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  3. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    @seth77 here's my only billion aspron trachy: small 1g, 11mmx21mm and I've always liked the portrait - John II Comnenus (?) trachy.jpg
    Rev: Crowned facing bust of John, holding cruciform sceptre and globus cruciger.
    Obv:
    Facing bust of Christ Pantokrator.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  4. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC Active Member

    Mich.II-s.2233-1b-1.40+g (21mm)-BN BYZ-779-777 (''Manuel 2182v'').JPG Here is Bendall's prime example of S.2233, from the Bibliotheque National (the source number is BYZ-779).
    It is the only convincing example of the type that I know of.
    It is not clear whether the ruler's name is Manuel or Michael, but the BN attributes it to Manuel Comnenus-Ducas at Thessalonica, presumably as a variant of S.2182.
    Note incidentally that according to the BN the weight of this coin is only 1.40 gm, although the size is given as 21 mm, i.e, a reasonably large module.

    Ross G.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  5. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    What an extraordinary example!
     
  6. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    How S 2182 can be distinguish from S 2233 ? You can find many examples of S 2182 .
     
  7. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC Active Member

    On 2182 the saint holds a spear in his right hand, angled across his chest and left shoulder.
    Notice that on the BN 2233 example you can still see the spear head above the saint's left shoulder - it seems the die used was a 2182 die recut with a shield in the saint's right hand.
    For more details on the coins of Michael II see my site here:

    http://www.glebecoins.net/paleos/Ar...II_of_Epi/the_coins_of_michael_ii_of_epi.html

    Ross G.

    P.S: Note that in C.L.B.C. (p.428) Marchev and Wachter are noncommittal on S.2233.

    Th.-ManCom-s.2182-6b-1.82g-CNG 100-2066.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  8. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I think that 2233 being a variation of 2182 seems plausible, especially in the light of the BnF specimen provided by Ross.

    Here is the Despot spec:

    298223.jpg

    If you look at the military saint holding the sword together with the emperor on the reverse, as depicted on this spec and the one in OP, you can almost see the same hand carving the two dies.

    The Despot spec is assigned as S.2233, but it could actually be either way.
     
  9. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    This is one of the most spectacular coin in the Thessalonica series. Been on the hunt for Sear 2233 forever and I doubt I will ever find one. But, you should be able to find 2182, but getting good condition coins are difficult. @seth77's coin is really nice and the one posted by @JohnnyC is one of the best I have seen. Here is one that I was lucky to acquire....

    Kingdom of Thessalonica: Manuel Comnenus-Ducas (1230-1237) Æ Trachy, Thessalonica (Sear 2182; DOC IV, Type F 1230- 1237; Lianta 361-63)

    Obv: O/Λ/Θ/OΔ/Ш; Bust of St. Theodore, bearded and nimbate, wearing tunic
    Rev: ΜAΝϪΗΛ OΛΔM; Half-length figure of ruler on left, and of beardless, nimbate military saint (Demetrius?); between them sheathed sword, pointed downward. Ruler wears stemma, divitision, collar-piece and jeweled loros of simplified type. Saint wears tunic, breastplate and sagion. In upper center field a cloud, with a star in the center, out of which extends Manus Dei, crowning the ruler.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    There is a certain style to the trachea of this time in Thessalonica-Epirus that is particularly pleasant and artistic regardless of the faults of the flan (ever smaller flans, clipped) and/or the defects of the strike.

    Here's Type C (DOC 5.5), S. 2179/2185 clipped to a minuscule 0.46g at 17x15x12mm:
    s-l1600.jpg
     
  11. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC Active Member

    Actually I should have remembered that S.2233 also appears in C.L.B.C. as Uncertain Ruler No. 16.5 (p.586).

    Ross G.
     
  12. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    This piece of a S. 2233 from Simon Bendall's collection has sold for 160+taxes. If you look at the OP coin, the BnF coin, the Despot coin and Bendall's coin, they all have that air of similarity of style. The engraving of the figures at least looks so similar that it might have been the product of the same set of hands.

    2233.jpg

    The CNG auction is here: https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/...1271-bi-aspron-trachy-14mm-064-g-6h-arta-mint
     
  13. The Trachy Enjoyer

    The Trachy Enjoyer Well-Known Member

    IMG_6167_scrubbed.png
    Here is my Sear 2182 and 2233! That example is mine. Even though the condition is poor, I figured that was my best chance at getting one
     
    Claudius_Gothicus and seth77 like this.
  14. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    It looks better than in CNG's picture.
     
    The Trachy Enjoyer likes this.
  15. The Trachy Enjoyer

    The Trachy Enjoyer Well-Known Member

    Thanks! Its a fun coin, condition aside!
     
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