Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;manymore, post: 2239371, member: 17118&quot;]In my first post, I very carefully explained that your coin differs in several key aspects from coins that are universally recognized to be authentic specimens of the <i>tian guo tong bao</i>.&nbsp; Furthermore, I backed up these points with impeccable references.</p><p><br /></p><p>We are discussing specifically a coin that was cast in Tianjing (Nanjing) in 1853 for a very, very short period of time as a &quot;trial coin&quot; (试铸).&nbsp; Very few of these coins were cast before the inscription was changed and there is little reason to believe that this small mintage would include another version of the coin like yours.&nbsp; This is the reason there are estimated to be fewer than 20 authentic coins known to exist.</p><p><br /></p><p>Hartill&#039;s book and the Baidu Encyclopedia are in agreement as to what these coins look like.</p><p><br /></p><p>I don&#039;t know of anyone who questions the authenticity of the coins displayed on the Baidu webpage or the rubbings in Hartill&#039;s catalog.</p><p><br /></p><p>However, it is very obvious that your coin is different in calligraphy (通), color/composition of the metal, patina, and casting characteristics as I have already pointed out.&nbsp; This is not my opinion but rather objective observation which anyone is able to see.</p><p><br /></p><p>One of these differences would be sufficient to question the authenticity of the coin.&nbsp; But your coin has four of these red flags.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, let&#039;s not accuse me of being incorrect in my appraisal.</p><p><br /></p><p>The burden of proof is with you to show that despite all these differences your coin is also authentic and not a fake.&nbsp; (As you know, fakes of this coin can be found everywhere.&nbsp; A Google or Baidu search will provide many examples.)</p><p><br /></p><p>Frankly, I was disappointed that your long reply did not provide any objective proof that your coin is indeed authentic.</p><p><br /></p><p>We are not discussing Qing dynasty coins in general nor are we discussing Taiping Rebellion coins that were cast after the <i>tian guo tong bao</i>.&nbsp; Your discussion on Qing brass coins, minting in various provinces, etc. is not relevant to the <i>tian guo tong bao</i> coin that was minted by rebels in the city of Nanjing in 1853.</p><p><br /></p><p>I don&#039;t doubt that you may have seen pictures of a brass coin from the Shanghai Museum.&nbsp; However, you have not shared the image with us and it is not even clear if the coin was a <i>tian guo tong bao</i> or some other Taiping Rebellion coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>I&#039;m happy you have access to many experts but please provide details as to why they say this coin is authentic when it differs from the known authentic specimens.</p><p><br /></p><p>I will provide one additional example of what these coins should look like.</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://auction.artxun.com/paimai-145-722788.shtml" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://auction.artxun.com/paimai-145-722788.shtml" rel="nofollow">This <i>tian guo tong bao</i> coin</a> was owned by Mr. Ma Dingxiang (马定祥).&nbsp; Mr. Ma is perhaps the most famous Chinese numismatist of the 20th Century.&nbsp; He is also the one who wrote the definitive catalog on coins of the Taiping Rebellion.</p><p><br /></p><p>As can be seen, this coin is in every respect (calligraphy, metal, patina, casting) the same as the other authentic specimens I have referenced.&nbsp; Contrast this with your coin and the differences are clear.</p><p><br /></p><p>Mr. Ma&#039;s coin was sold by <a href="http://english.cguardian.com/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://english.cguardian.com/" rel="nofollow">China Guardian</a> which is probably the most respected auction house for rare Chinese coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>The coin sold at the auction in 2005 for about $22,400 (RMB 143,000).</p><p><br /></p><p>That would prove to be a real bargain.&nbsp; Today (ten years later), any of these authentic specimens would sell for more than $313,000 (RMB 2,000,000) according to the Baidu Encyclopedia (...为太平天国钱珍品，估价在200万元以上)。</p><p><br /></p><p>Let me summarize.&nbsp; I have now referenced two rubbings and three images, all of which are consistent in appearance.&nbsp; That is a total of 5 authentic specimens of a maximum total of less than 20.&nbsp; ( Some references mention there are &quot;more than 10 known&quot;, &quot;13 known&quot;, etc.)</p><p><br /></p><p>That would be a minimum of 25% of all the known specimens, but your coin does not resemble them.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, please now provide reliable proof that your coin is genuine.</p><p><br /></p><p>Seen the coin? You did not say that he authenticated the coin as genuine.&nbsp; Please provide evidence if he did in fact authenticate the coin.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Please provide suitable proof of the provenance and the name of the auction house.&nbsp; These coins appear so rarely that they are always sold at top prices at major auctions of prestigious auction houses.&nbsp; Please provide the link to the sale of your coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>I&#039;m really hoping that you will take this opportunity to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your coin is genuine.&nbsp; If there really is an authentic version of the coin that is different from those already recognized then we would all like to know.</p><p><br /></p><p>Gary[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in