A pretty pegasus and a question: Does anyone have a copy of Ravel's "Poulains"?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orielensis, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Here is a Corinth stater that I recently bought in a lot of high quality coins:
    Griechen – Korinthia, Korinth, Stater.png
    Corinthia, Corinth, AR stater, c. 405–345 BC. Obv: Pegasus galloping l.; below, Ϙ. Rev: head of Athena wearing Corinthian helmet l.; in field r., statue of Poseidon hurling trident (?). Ref: Reverse: Ravel T 466 (?); Cammann 99d. 22mm, 8.52g.

    The type really needs no introduction on this board. I had been looking for a decent example for a long time and am happy I finally found one!

    Yet, I have an identification problem. The Corinthian pegasus-series is large, and there is an enormous number of dies and control marks. I couldn't identify the obverse die of my coin yet, but its reverse field mark, apparently a statue of Poseidon, is rather scarce. I found pictures of only two other examples online, and both are die matches to my coin. The first is from Jean B. Cammann: The Symbols on Staters of Corinthian Type: A Catalogue, New York: ANS 1932, no. 99d:
    Bildschirmfoto 2021-10-11 um 14.57.41.png

    The second was sold in 2009 by Herbert Grün, auction 52, lot 81, and again in 2017 by Gorny&Mosch, auction 249, lot 254:
    697684.jpg

    The auction listings for this coin mention that the reverse die is recorded as T 466, coin no. 810 in O. Ravel: Les “Poulains” de Corinthe. Basel 1936-1948. They also claim that it is not in R. Calciati: Pegasi. Mortara 1990. Calciati and Ravel are the standard reference works for Pegasus staters. Both books are rare, expensive, and long out of print, and I unfortunately have access to neither of them.

    Therefore, I'd like to ask for the help of the forum mebers with better nmismatic libraries. If you by any chance have of copy of Ravel at hand, would you be willing to quickly look up coin no. 810 to confirm the auction listing and see whether Ravel's coin might even have the same obverse die as mine?

    Also, please feel free to post your own Pegasus coins!
     
    Curtisimo, Andres2, Spaniard and 13 others like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Q TITIUS.jpg
    Q TITIUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS TITIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Head of Mutinus Titinus (Priapus) right, wearing winged diadem
    REVERSE: The Pegasus springing right, Q TITI on base
    Struck at Rome 90 BC
    3.8g, 18mm
    Cr341/1, Syd 691; Titia 1
    Domitian 5.jpg
    DOMITIAN
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: CAESAR AVG F DOMITIANVS, laureate head right
    REVERSE: COS IIII, The Pegasus standing right with raising left foreleg
    Struck at Rome, 76AD
    3.1g, 20mm
    RIC 921
     
    Andres2, Spaniard, cmezner and 8 others like this.
  4. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    @Orielensis , congratulations for a beautiful coin!
    Regarding the reference books, I cannot help but I will post my coins with the flying horse.
    (I don't know about other countries, but in the fairy tales from my country there is always a flying horse helping the hero)

    upload_2021-10-11_17-25-47.png


    Corinthia. Corinth circa 345-307 BC.
    Drachm AR
    13 mm, 1,87 g
    Pegasos flying left, wings curled, Koppa below. / Head of Aphrodite left, hair in a sakkos. ΠA monogram behind head. BCD Corinth 162; SNG Fitzwilliam 3455-3456; SNG Cop. 136.

    I am not 100% sure about this one's attribution but the monogram seems to confirm what I found.

    upload_2021-10-11_17-26-59.png


    Q. Titius, Rome, 90 BC. AR Denarius.
    Head of young Bacchus/Liber right, wearing ivy wreath.
    Rev: Pegasus springing right Q·TITI
    Crawford 341/2; RBW 1275; RSC Titia 2.
    3.51 gr. 19 mm

    Here is one (that I bought by mistake :D ) where Pegasus is on Athena's helmet
    upload_2021-10-11_17-28-19.png


    PONTOS. Amisos AE29 Time of Mithradates VI Eupator, ca 105-90 or 90-85 BC
    Helmeted head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet decorated with Pegasos
    Rev: AMI - ΣOY - Perseus standing left, holding harpa and head of Medusa, whose decapitated body lies at his feet; monogram to left and right.
    SNG BM Black Sea 1169-72; HGC 7, 238.
    18,30 g, 30 mm
     
    Andres2, Spaniard, cmezner and 8 others like this.
  5. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

  6. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    Are you saying you think coin 2 is a die match? I do not see that for the Athena portrait. Maybe I am wrong. Both have a statue, sure, but not a die match to me.
     
    ominus1 and Orielensis like this.
  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Gallienus, 253-268 A.D. 23mm 3.7 grams (antoninianus)
    Obverse: GALLIENVS AVG
    Reverse: SOLI CONS AVG, Pegasus prancing right (or one of Sol's horses)

    gal1.jpg

    gal2.jpg
     
    Spaniard, cmezner, ancientone and 6 others like this.
  8. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Thanks a thousand times! I hadn't found it online. That`s extremely helpful!

    The plate from Cammann isn't exactly high quality, so I'm not certain. I had assumed it was a die match to mine, but I might be wrong.
     
  9. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    I was referring to the Grun example. I could see yours being a later die state of the Cammann coin.
     
    ominus1 and Orielensis like this.
  10. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clarifying - now I understand what you mean! The picture of the Grün coin was certainly shot from a different angle and under different light conditions, and the coin might have been polished at some point so that the high points are highlighted. But looking especially at Athena' locks of hair and the small die flaw on top of the helmet, I think I see a die match. That's without warranty, though, since I'm not very good at this:
    Bildschirmfoto 2021-10-11 um 17.21.42.png
    Also, thanks to @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix and his link, I was able to identify my coin and its die combination as Ravel 737:
    Bildschirmfoto 2021-10-11 um 17.18.18.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    Curtisimo, Cucumbor, Spaniard and 5 others like this.
  11. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Wonderful type that I've been chasing for a while, meaning, sadly I've none.
    But here's some coins of mine featuring the Pegasus:
    IMG_4911.jpg
    Screenshot_20210407-172349_PicCollage-removebg-preview.png 2184097_1631628307.l.jpg
    Here's a drinking cup featuring the mythical beast!
    IMG_0459.PNG
     
    Curtisimo, Andres2, Spaniard and 7 others like this.
  12. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    nice coin, but i say not die match..:)
     
    Orielensis likes this.
  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Lovely coins, everyone! Here are my three Pegasi, one Greek, one Roman Republican, and one Roman Imperial:

    Corinth AR Stater. Circa 375-345 BC. Obv: Pegasos flying left, Q below / Rev: Helmeted head of Athena left. Control-symbols behind head: Retrograde N and Ares standing left holding shield and spear. Pegasi 376 var. [“N” not retrograde] [Calciati, R., Pegasi Vol. I (Mortara, 1990)]; Ravel 1056 var. [“N” not retrograde] [Ravel, O.E., Les "Poulains" de Corinthe, I - II (Basel, 1936; London, 1948)]; BCD Corinth 121 [Numismatik Lanz, Münzen von Korinth: Sammlung B, Auction 105 (Munich, 26 Nov. 2001)]; SNG Copenhagen 121 [Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Copenhagen, The Royal Collection of Coins and Medals, Danish National Museum, Part 15, Corinth (Copenhagen 1944)]. 21mm, 8.46 g., 6h. Ex. Roma Numismatics Ltd. Auction IX, 22 March 2015, Lot 168.
    Corinth AR Stater jpg version.jpg

    Roman Republic, Q. Titius, AR Denarius, Rome 90 BCE. Obv. Head of Mutinus Titius[?] [ = Priapus] right with beard & winged diadem / Rev. Pegasus springing right, “Q TITI” on tablet below. RSC I Titia 1, Crawford 341/1, Sear RCV I 238, BMCRR Rome 2220. 18.5 mm., 3.8 g.

    Q. Titius denarius jpg version.jpg

    Gallienus, Billon Antoninianus, 267-268 AD, Rome Mint (1st Officina). Obv. Radiate head right, GALLIENVS AVG /Rev. Pegasus springing right, about to take flight. SOLI CONS AVG; A offset to right in exergue. RIC V-1 283 (p. 155), RSC IV 979, Sear RCV III 10362, Wolkow 26a1[Cédric Wolkow, Catalogue des monnaies romaines - Gallien - L'émission dite "Du Bestiaire" - atelier de Rome (BNumis, édition 2019)], Göbl MIR [Moneta Imperii Romani] Band 36, No. 712b. 21 mm., 3.12 g, 11 h.

    Gallienus - Pegasus jpg version.jpg

    PS to @Orielensis: I'm not sure it's a die match either: to me, Athena's profile, and specifically the shape of the nose, mouth, and chin, looks slightly different in the two coins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    Ryan McVay, Andres2, Spaniard and 6 others like this.
  14. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    Iberia. Indigets. Emporia Æ AS...27.88mm/10.05grams..27-25 BC..
    Obverse:Head of the goddess Pallas Athena wearing a Corinthian helmet with the visor raised and a large plume.
    Reverse: Pegasos flying right, laurel crown above rump; EMPO below.
    Villaronga, ACIP 1098 - R6
    Ex Archer M Huntington Collection (HSA 1001.1.10234). 3bCHgN5FAtm97kXxY87i6pQqfH4EGs.jpg
     
  15. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

  16. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Fantastic coin! I have visited the ruins of Empuries several times and would love to have a coin from this city. This is a picture of the Asklepios temple in the Greek part of the city, taken in 2016:
    IMG_5448.jpeg

    This is the bathhouse in the Roman part of ancient Empuries:
    IMG_7093.jpeg
     
  17. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    A corinth stater is high on my list, I have yet to find the right one at the right price

    The poor man's pegasus

    [​IMG]
    Rome mint, 7th officina, AD 267-268
    GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right
    APOLLINI CONS AVG, Centaur walking right, drawing bow. Z at exergue
    2.41 gr
    Ref : Cohen # 72, RCV # 10177, Göbl # 735b, RIC # 163, CMR Gallien # 2a7

    Q
     
    Curtisimo, Andres2, Bing and 5 others like this.
  18. akeady

    akeady Well-Known Member

    @Orielensis I don't have Ravel, but I have bought a copy of Calciata from his website - operated by the late author's son, as I gather. I posted a link to it some time ago on CoinTalk, if you search, you should find it - I'm typing on my 'phone and it's too hard for me to dig it up right now. It was far cheaper direct from there than through specialist bookstores or auctions.

    (I've taken a photo' at Empuries from the same place as your first photo'!)

    ATB,
    Aidan.
     
    Curtisimo and Orielensis like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page