A Poor Plate Coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Let's be honest, I would not have purchased this very worn hemidrachm if it wasn't for the fact it had a 'coolness' factor for being a Dattari-Savio plate coin. Another contributing factor is that I recently acquired the 1999 edition of the esteemed reference.

    It's not a bad coin, but it would be pretty unremarkable without the provenance.



    RPC2671.jpg
    Domitian
    Æ Hemidrachm, 11.95g
    Alexandria mint, 92-93 AD
    Obv: ΑΥΤ ΚΑΙϹ ΘƐΟ(Υ) ΥΙΟϹ ΔΟΜΙΤ ϹƐΒ ΓƐΡΜ; Head of Domitian, laureate, l.
    Rev: LΙΒ; Nike advancing l., with wreath and palm
    RPC 2671 (12 spec.). Emmett 269.12. Dattari-Savio 512 (this coin).
    Acquired from Marc Breitsprecher, February 2021.

    A fairly common hemidrachm struck at Alexandria during Domitian's regnal year 12. The Alexandrian mint under Domitian around regnal year 10 or 11 experienced a 'dramatic improvement in style' and the 'adoption of a wide range of new types' (Milne). This reverse featuring the Greek goddess Nike is one of the more abundant hemidrachm types struck after the mint's overhaul.


    20210312_052133.jpg

    I have vented my frustration in another thread concerning the difficulty in using Dattari-Savio for attributions - the above photo of the plate in question is one reason why. The plate coin is unlabelled and out of sequence, it took some imaginative skills to match it up with my specimen (the plates are just rubbings after all!). Lacking an index or proper catalogue, Dattari-Savio is a really tough reference to use ... even for matching up your plate coins!


    Post your plate coins, poor or otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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  3. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    What is a plate coin?
     
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  4. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Coins that are discussed and shown in a book or article. The coins could be in the text but are often in the appendix in so called 'plates' (plate I, plate II etc). And in a plate the coins are shown that are discussed in the text. If you have the exact same coin as the one shown in the plates, you have a 'plate coin'. These coins are often more valuable (depending on what book/article it is) and it is ofcourse fun to have a coin that is the exact same coin used to write a piece of text in a numismatic book/article.
     
  5. Carl Wilmont

    Carl Wilmont Well-Known Member

    I agree that it's nice to have a plate coin and the associated publication, @David Atherton. Great job finding that match to the rubbing! Here's the plate coin for Hendin 1430 in his Guide to BIBLICAL COINS:

    [​IMG]

    Judaea, Bar Kokhba Revolt. Silver Zuz (3.25 g), 132-135 AD. Undated, attributed to year 3 (134/5 AD). 'Simon' (Paleo-Hebrew), bunch of grapes with leaf and tendril. / 'For the freedom of Jerusalem' (Paleo-Hebrew), upright palm branch. Hendin 1430; David Hendin Guide to BIBLICAL COINS, Fifth Edition, plate 40, (this coin illus.); Mildenberg 150 (O11/R103), 7 cited, this being #5. Portions of the undertype legend visible on obverse from the obverse of a Drachm, probably of Trajan and probably of Caesaria. The letters AYTOK can be discerned, these being part of the title AYTOKRATΩR - autocrat, dictator, tyrant, despot. Ex David Hendin Collection.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..that's why my ancient semi slugs are gonna be valuable after i kick the bucket :D
     
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  7. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    I’m glad you rescued this coin by adding it to your collection.
     
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  8. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Wow.
     
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  9. akeady

    akeady Well-Known Member

    I've had this since 2013 and only realised a few weeks ago that it's illustrated in Oliver Hoover's Handbook of Greek Coins. It's worn, but the reverse is attractive.

    Ruler: Lysimachos
    State, City: Thrace, Lysimacheia
    Coin: Silver Tetradrachm
    Obv.: Diademed head of the deified Alexander with horn of Ammon right
    Rev.: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΛΥΣΙΜΑΧΟΥ - Athena enthroned left, holding Nike, resting left elbow on shield, spear behind; lion's head before, two monograms in exergue
    Mint: (After 280 BC)
    Wt./Size/Axis: 16.95g / 30mm / 10h
    References:
    • cf ANSMN 13, 21
    • HGC Vol. 3, part 2, 1493 (this coin)
    Provenances:
    • Tannenbaum Collection
    Acquisition/Sale: Roma Numismatics Online auction E-Sale 1 #153 31-Aug-2013

    OI000102.JPG
    OI000104.JPG

    And from HGC:
    20210228_204230.jpg

    ATB,
    Aidan.
     
  10. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I have a pretty high tolerance for the honest wear found on many of the larger bronze coins of Ptolemaic Egypt. I think your coin is quite nice @David Atherton .

    Here is a plate coin with a wonderful provenance I wrote about in a recent thread.

    When Hope is a Bad Thing - Elpis and Pandora’s “Box”
    CADAB215-D0A6-44FB-9DBB-A110806236E4.jpeg
    D01CEC5E-7E00-4D5D-891C-BF0A3185C8DE.jpeg
    Egypt, Alexandria
    Antoninus Pius
    BI Tetradrachm, Alexandria mint, RY 11 = AD 147/8.
    Dia.: 24 mm
    Wt.: 13.81 g
    Obv.: ANTωNEINOC CEB EYCEB, Laureate bust right
    Rev.: L ENΔEKATOV, Elpis standing left, lifting hem of skirt and holding flower
    Ref.: Dattari-Savio pl. 111, 8160 (this coin illustrated); Emmett 1383.11; RPC Online IV temp #13607 (this coin cited).
    Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman-Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago (1981.511); ex Giovanni Dattari Collection (1853-1923)
     
  11. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Nice job finding that match, David. I don't have Dattari-Savio, but you're not the first person I've heard complain about what a nightmare it is to use.

    In contrast, here's a plate coin I have from a lesser known reference, but one with very nice full-colour pictures. It's Wendelin Kellner's Die Münzstätte Alexandria in Ägypten.

    Lucilla - Den Pietas ex AK 1525.JPG
    Lucilla - Den Pietas ex AK 1525 plate.JPG

    LUCILLA
    AR Denarius. 3.34g, 18.9mm. Rome mint, AD 161-162. Kellner, Alexandria p. 27 and p. 115 pl. 6 (this coin illustrated); BMCRE 317; Cohen 50; RIC III 775. O: LVCILLAE AVG ANTONINI AVG F, draped bust right, hair waved and knotted low at back in chignon. R: PIETAS, Pietas, draped, standing left, raising right hand over lighted altar left, and holding box in left at side.
    Ex A.K. Collection; ex stock Münzen und Medaillen Basel 1970
     
  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    This one is ex-Houghton:

    [​IMG]
    Laodike IV, wife and sister of both Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV.
    Selucia in Pieria, 175-164 BC.
    AE 3.33 gm; 15 mm.
    Obv: Veiled bust of Laodike IV, r.
    Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ, elephant head l.; prow.
    Refs: Houghton, CSE 113 (plate coin); Forrer 183.
     
  13. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    'Nightmare' is very apt. Savio was trying to be as faithful as possible to the original source material, but by doing so he sacrificed a lot of practicality along the way.
     
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  14. jdmKY

    jdmKY Well-Known Member

    851F03D5-96BB-41E7-9D23-4B819D64867C.jpeg 44A55331-9AE6-42EF-A0CE-19BD7CCB6434.jpeg Julius Caesar
    Feb-March, 44 BC

    ex - Edward Gans

    Alfoldi - Schweizer Munzblatter, vol 73, Feb 1969, plate 1, number 1

    Banti and Simonetti - Corpus Nummorum Romanorum, vol 1, p 79, number 95/11
     
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