A pleasant surprise on a recently purchased imperial Roman coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by johnmilton, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    As some of you know, I am a “light weight” ancient imperial Roman coin collector. My current goal is to get one coin for each emperor up a date that I have yet to determine. My interests run much more to learning about each emperor than collecting any of them in-depth.

    Recently I have developed an interest in Diocletian and the first tetrarchy. In 285 AD Diocletian appointed Maximian to be his co-emperor. Diocletian took charge of the eastern empire while Maximian was responsible for the western empire.

    Two other “caesars” were added to the leadership team. Galerius aided Diocletian in the east, and Constantius joined Maximian in the west. The tetrarchy was advertised and symbolized on many argenteus coins that the empire issued. These coins were made of fine silver in an effort to improve the quality of the circulating coinage. Unfortunately, Gresham’s Law won the day, and these coins were driven from circulation. At any rate the reverse of this argenteus of Maximian with the four men around an altar with a military camp in the background.

    Maximimianus O.jpg Maximimianus R.jpg


    I thought about getting all four of the argenteus coins for the two emperors and the two caesars, but that would get expensive. Instead I bought this follis to represent Galerius.

    Galerius Follis O.jpg Galerius Follis R.jpg


    When I fully deciphered the reverse, I ran into a pleasant surprise. The personification on the reverse is Moneta who stands for mints and money. The Latin phrase that surrounds her is SACRA MON VRB AVGG ET CAESS NN which translates to “Sacred money of Rome, our emperors and our caesars.”

    One thing I have noticed about these coins is that they loaded with political messages. They extoll the virtues of the emperor who issued them, and often get the names of his wife and children into the public’s mind. In this case the caesar is tooting his horn about the “sacred money” that the government is issuing on a rather humble coin, the follis. Like I said that was a pleasant surprise.
     
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  3. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Yes, that's an essential reverse for any Roman collector. :) Yours is a nice Rome mint version. Here's a Trier for Galerius, and a Ticinum for Maximian:

    Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 12.58.59 PM.jpg Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 12.58.44 PM.jpg
     
  4. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    A beauty! I was watching that argenteus when it was for sale. Pretty coin.
     
  5. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    A Constantius:
    ConstantiusIArgenteusL3.jpg
    Constantius I, as caesar; period of 294-May 305 AD; AR argenteus (3.3 gm). Obv: CONSTANT-IVS CAESAR; his laureate head, right. Rev: VIRTVS MILITVM. The four princes sacrificing over tripod before archway in eight-turreted enclosure. Not listed in RIC but a close variant of RIC VI, p.460, #44a, Siscia mint.
     
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  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I would hardly classify those coins as what would belong to a 'lightweight' collector and also believe that the idea of getting something a little different for each of the persons has some additional merit showing a range of interesting things. To carry it further, you might get a posthumous coin of Constantius ru3923bb3102.jpg

    and a pre-reform coin of Maximianus
    ru3600bb2063.jpg

    just to cover as much ground as possible with only four coins. The big point is that there is no right or wrong way to collect ancient coins as long as you understand that there are choices to be made if you decide to put thought as well as money into the project. I am not at all a fan of the 'one coin per emperor' style of collecting and am quite OK with the fact that I do not have a complete set and never will. You won't either since there are a handful of rulers that are so rare and so much in demand that a coin of theirs would cost closer to the price of your house than that of a decent car.

    This is a good place to show and discuss your coins current and future. My favorite 'new' coins are those that I did not even know existed before one came to live with me. When you are freed from the constraints of 'set filling' you are free to buy anything and everything that seems like it would add enjoyment to your hobby. Your coins are a nice start. I especially like the Galerius which has two additional bonuses to the Moneta reverse you mentioned. It has the obverse legend not using the name Galerius but certainly his since there are no coins as NOBil CAESar for Maximianus. Second, we have the mintmark Q (workshop 4) followed by a small thunderbolt. Many/most ancient have small details that add interest for those who choose to study them. Several of us here will be happy to help if your hobby takes you in this direction.
     
  7. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Some more sacred money of Constantine I Chlorus
    Galerius and Diocletian

    P1180760 chlorus (2).jpg

    P1180760 Galerius.JPG P1180763 Diocletianusbb.jpg
     
  8. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Constantius I Chlorus....as shown in the "fine print." :happy:
     
  9. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Nice coins! I particularly like the mint mark on that follis of Galerius! Here's a SACRA MON of Diocletian. I wish the reverse legend was completely on the flan, but I like the coin anyway.

    [​IMG]
    Diocletian, AD 284-305.
    Roman billon follis, 10.80 g, 23.6 mm, 7 h.
    Rome, AD 302-305.
    Obv: IMP C DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, Laureate head, right.
    Rev: SACRA MON VRB AVGG ET CAESS NN, Moneta standing left, holding scales and cornucopiae; star in right field, R P in exergue.
    Refs: RIC vi, p. 362, 103a; Cohen 434; RCV 12815.
     
  10. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Great coins and I share your interest in the history behind the coin. Here's another Sacra Moneta of Diocletian from Rome - with a little variation from the one from @Roman Collector :
    Diocletian SacraManeta.jpg
    Diocletian, 284-305 AD, Æ Follis, Rome mint, struck 303-305 AD
    Obv: IMP C DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, laureate head right
    Rev: SAC MON VRB AVGG ET CAESS N N, Moneta standing left, holding scales in right hand, cornucopia in left; R(crescent)B
    Ref: RIC VI 111a
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  11. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Diocletian 7.jpg
    DIOCLETIAN
    AE27 Silvered Follis
    OBVERSE: IMP C C VAL DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, laureate head right
    REVERSE: GENIO POPV-L-IROMANI, Genius standing left, holding patera & cornucopia, HTA in ex.
    Struck at Heraclea, 296-297 AD
    9.3g, 27mm
    RIC VI 19a
     
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  12. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Lovely argenteus, with my favorite reverse for these. I'm 3 out of 4 so far in getting an argenteus for each tetrarch. At the same time, I fully subscribe to Doug's idea of "getting something a little different for each of the persons" and furthermore also hope that my last remaining one (Diocletian) will have some feature or aspect "I did not even know existed before." That may mean I won't be ticking off the box with the next one or even one hundred Diocletian argentei I see, but I figure that's part of what makes the hunt fun. :)

    Maximianus - Argenteus Victoriae Sarmatica 2326 b.jpg MAXIMIANUS
    AR Argenteus. 3.11g, 17.9mm. Nicomedia mint, circa AD 295-296. RIC VI Nicomedia 25b; RSC 553c. O: MAXIMIANVS AVG, laureate head right. R: VICTORIAE SARMATICAE, campgate with four turrets, doors open, and star above archway; SMNΓ in exergue.

    Galerius - Argenteus Provi.jpg GALERIUS
    AR Argenteus. 3.36g, 18.4mm. Rome mint, circa AD 295-297. RIC 35b. O: MAXIMIANVS CAES, laureate head right. R: PROVIDENTIA AVGG, the four Tetrarchs sacrificing over tripod before city enclosure; Γ in exergue.

    Constantius I - Argenteus Campgate.jpg CONSTANTIUS I CHLORUS
    AR Argenteus. 3.35g, 19.6mm. Serdica mint, circa AD 305-306. RIC 11a (R4), unlisted officina Γ=3. O: CONSTANTIVS AVG, laureate head right. R: VIRTVS MILITVM, three-turreted campgate with seven layers and no doors; •SM•SDΓ• in exergue.
     
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  13. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    You have to be aware, that this type was issued about the same time (A.D. 301) as Diocletian's Edict on Maximum Prices. It was an attempt at PR for a very unpopular edict.
     
  14. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Not sure I've seen all three of those together before. They make a stunning group. Hurry up on the Diocletian, I wanna see it! :arghh:

    My only argenteus (Galerius, Rome mint):
    Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 9.25.28 PM.jpg
     
  15. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I do too, but I gotta hold out for the right one. :D Nice Galerius!
     
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  16. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The argentii shown here are exceptional not so much from grade but for lack of cracks and chipped edges. I have seen these coins broken and suggest careful handling.
     
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  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    DIOCLETIAN

    upload_2020-7-9_9-1-14.png
    RI Diocletian Ӕ Quinarius 1.46g 16mm Rome AD 284-305 IOVI CONSERVAT AVGG, Jupiter stndng thunderbolt sceptre RIC 193 R


    upload_2020-7-9_9-1-58.png
    RI Diocletian 284-305 CE AE Radiate Fraction VOT XX
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    GALERIUS

    upload_2020-7-9_9-4-14.png
    RI Galerius 293-308 AE30mm Folles Ticinum mint Moneta 12g


    MAXIMIANUS

    upload_2020-7-9_9-5-38.png
    RI MAXIMIANUS HERCULIUS 286-305 CE antoninianus Antioch 292-295 CE Pre-Reform CONCORDIA MILITVM Jupiter RIC V 621 H-officina 8
     
  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    CONSTANTIUS I

    upload_2020-7-9_9-8-52.png
    RI Constantius I Chlorus 293-306 CE DIVO AE Quinarius Thesalonika 317-318 Seated RIC VII 25 R5 R
     
  21. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on several very nice coins! Here is one of my argentei:
    Maximianus, Rome, 294. 3.61 gr. 18.3 mm. hr. 6. RIC 27b

    2015.023.jpg
     
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