A Pedigreed Masterpiece of Greek Coinage

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Al Kowsky, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    The coin pictured below is being offered at CNG Auction 112, Lot 80. It is one of the most iconic of all Greek coins. Naxos, Sicily, circa 460 BC, AR Tetradrachm: 17.23 gm, 28 mm, 11h. The depiction on the reverse of Silenos has no equal in Greek coinage. Aside from being drunk, Silenos is sporting an obvious erection :smuggrin:. For $300,000.00 you can start the bidding on this gem. For details on this coin follow the link below the coin.

    CNG 112, Lot 80.jpg
    https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=387627
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    We might discuss whether we would rather have this coin or a thousand $300 coins but there is no doubt that this is the right coin for someone out there. Note there is no estimate on this one, just a minimum bid. I have an opinion on what it will bring but we have said many times that we should not discuss upcoming sales so I won't give that opinion here. I assume many of us would have trouble covering the buyers fee and delivery (don't mail it for heaven's sake).

    For those resigned to not winning this one, Antiquanova makes a replica of the half denomination for $6.71 in tin. You could buy one of those for everyone you know and not come close to the price of this coin. The replica is not quite right in style but I doubt that there are all that many people in the world who would know the difference. Where has this coin been since 1934?

    There are lesser coin types from this city but I do not have one to show. The closest I have is this litra of Katane (south of mt.Aitna; Naxos is north). It cost $85 (aka more my speed). It shows a less wonderful Silenos head and a thunderbolt. Who here has the equivalent coin of Naxos?
    g20365bb2704.jpg

    CNG has sold several. Want list anyone?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  4. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Beautiful ancient coin, OR a brand new house? Decisions, decisions....

    I don't have anything to show at the moment, but a few Savoca auctions ago I did narrowly miss getting this one for 85 Euro...
    [​IMG]
    https://www.biddr.ch/auctions/savoca/browse?a=622&l=641648

    How I wish I had bid just a little higher!
     
  5. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Here's my replica Naxos Doug mentions:

    P1220105.JPG
    And here's a similar Naxos Tetradrachma struck 30 years later, sold by Gorny&Mosch
    budget coin :)

    P1230762.JPG
    Finn, the guy that outbid you , could have made a highest bid of 200 Euro or even more o_O
     
    TypeCoin971793, Ryro, Paul M. and 4 others like this.
  6. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Actually there is an estimate of $500,000.00 on the Naxos Tet :jawdrop:. It's hard to guess what this coin will fetch considering the coin market is rather soft right now. I've only seen one other example of this coin type being offered for sale that is superior to this coin, & that coin was offered for sale by Bowers & Ruddy Galleries. Harlan Berk bought the Bowers & Ruddy example in 1981 for $175,000.00, & that was a hefty sum of money at the time. I don't know if Harlan Berk still has the coin, but of all 62 examples known of this coin type Berk's example was the finest.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    Paul M. and galba68 like this.
  7. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Personally, I'd classify the current ancient Greek market as frustratingly strong. There are a few relatively new players who are spending vast sums of money (happily, under quality direction and advice) and they're making it difficult to buy coins.

    At least two of them already have a Naxos so this coin might not go to the moon but I wouldn't expect it to sell on the low side of the estimate: CNG just always opens their lots at 60% but rarely do they sell there.

    I don't have one and was offered this coin last year but ultimately needed to pass as it was too expensive for me at the time at the offered price. I doubt it'll sell much lower in this sale but we'll see what happens.

    HJB (and most dealers) operate on a model where they buy/sell fairly quickly. Holding a coin from 1981 until now wouldn't make sense - they probably either represented a customer for it or had one in mind when purchasing it and it was off of their books in weeks/months.

    This is a good question. When more liquid funds are needed elsewhere (business, life, etc.) I've often toyed with the idea of consolidating a handful of "replaceable" coins that I've enjoyed owning in favor of adding a "big ticket"/truly irreplaceable piece if/when one came available.

    There's no guarantee you'll end up being successful in purchasing the new coin which could leave you without the new one and without the previous ones which is a risk but this could be at least somewhat mitigated.

    For me, there are a handful of types that, if they were to come onto the market, would cause me to seriously consider some consolidating.

    It does result in a philosophical question about the nature of a collection: is it only the complete group you own at the end when you choose to sell (or die or donate) or is your "collection" the set of coins you've owned over time? Defining a collection just as the cumulative quantity of capital you're willing/able to reserve for a set duration seems contrived but this seems to align with what has historically defined a collection.

    Taken to an absurd extent, it could be possible to buy one coin, sell it, buy a different one, sell it, buy a different one, etc. which would certainly not "feel" like a collection. Similarly, in my eyes, a dealer's inventory over time shouldn't count as their "collection".

    So, is there an acceptable medium period, a minimum holding duration which differentiates between a transient piece and a permanent fixture? Or, am I pontificating too much because of jetlag?
     
  8. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I would choose the thousand $300 coins every time given that choice, especially if it meant 1000 coins with an average price of $300. It would be nice to splurge and spend a couple thousand on a few nice pieces, and there are quite a few lower end coins I would love to own that could easily balance it out.

    IMO, a collection is a curated group of coins one intends to hold for the long term, whether actually does hold or not. A collection should have some meaning as a group, so I would say the minimum size of a collection is somewhere on the order of 3-5 coins. I think 2 coins could form a collection under special circumstances, but I think that's a bit of a reach.
     
    Theodosius likes this.
  9. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Oh heck. And there was me ready to put a bid on this, now EVERYONE will be bidding. What's a gal to do?
    :rolleyes:
     
    Orielensis and Paul M. like this.
  10. Multatuli

    Multatuli Homo numismaticus

    The funniest thing is that the bid increment is only five bucks ...
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  11. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    This and the later tetradrachm are two of my all time favorite types.

    John
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  12. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    John, You certainly are a "Unrepentant Fine Style Freak"! The later version of the famous Naxos Tet, although very different, is also a masterpiece of Greek coinage ;), see photos below. Naxos, Sicily, circa 425 BC. AR Tetradrachm: 17.14 gm, 25 mm, 5h. This version is purely classical in style & has lost remnants of the archaic style as seen in the older version. Silenos is older & looks more human than the older version. Dionysos no longer looks severe & appears very human too. This coin was offered for sale by CNG in association with NOMOS AG 7 years ago for $275,000.00 :jawdrop:. Even the famous coin forger Karl Becker, was greatly impressed with this later version, & made a beautiful copy of this coin before 1830, seen below the original. CNG sold this handsome forgery for well over $2,000.00 not long ago.

    Cabinet W 1007.jpg
    Becker Forgery, 13.28 gm., 1772-1830.jpg
    Becker forgery, circa 1820, 13.28 gm.
     
  13. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    If I had $300k, what would I buy?

    Hmmm.....

    55162D47-AB03-4A16-A983-7B1638FAD1A0.jpeg
     
  14. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I was once offered a fouree of the first tetradrachm by a major dealer at the fun show in 1999 or so for $8000. It was supposed to be struck from official dies. It looked very good and was very hard to tell it was a fouree. I so did not have that much to spend at the time so I never seriously considered it.

    I bought this coin instead for waaay less:
    Rhegion Tet 1a.jpg

    Which I have never regretted.

    John
     
    Orfew, Ryro, Bing and 3 others like this.
  15. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    This is not a masterpiece but it does have a nice pedigree. tetradrachm of Demetrios II Mint of Sidon. Rv Eagle stg left. 13.57 grms Lorber SC 1954 6b This coin illustrated Hoover HGC 9 969 This coin illustrated Ex Houghton Collection CSE 718 Ex M & M FPL 1967 I cannot find any reference to the auction where this coin was sold after Arthur Houghton decided to let it go. i picked it up in 2000 from a collector in Vancouver B.C. Canada SKdemetriosII-7.jpg .
     
    PeteB, Orfew, Bing and 4 others like this.
  16. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    @Terence Cheesman that is a really nice Hellenistic portrait. Great pick up.

    John
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page