A Pair of Father & Son Campgates (that i couldnt resist)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by NicholasMaximus, May 23, 2020.

  1. NicholasMaximus

    NicholasMaximus Active Member

    Hello Everyone,

    I was recently inspired by a beautiful campgate that Coin Talk member @hotwheelsearl shared under my first thread. I actually felt compelled to message him the other day and let him know how much i enjoyed it, and that I was searching for campgates of my own.

    There is something about a nice, even looking campgate on an ancient coin, that just strikes me (see what i did there?) as incredible. So when I came across this pair of Father & Son Campgates, I knew I wanted them immediately. (Constantine the great, and his not so great oldest son, Constantine II)

    They are currently on the way to my house and I cant wait to examine them in hand! I would love to hear some opinions on how I did, if anyone has a thought they wanted to share?

    Thanks to all who read, and have allowed me to share my new coins with them!

    Constantine Arles.jpg

    Constantine II PROV CG.jpg
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  3. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    very nice campgates...and father, son to boot!....:)
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  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

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  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Very nice, @NicholasMaximus ! Great campgates, and a Dad/Brat combo-pack! Well done!

    I do not collect much from the Imperial period, however, I DID get a Campgate from C1:

    Roman Imperial Period
    Constantine I, AD 306-337.
    Æ Follis, 19mm, 3.2g, 12h;
    Siscia, AD 326-7.
    Obv.: CONSTANTINVS AVG; Laureate head right.
    Rev.: PROVIDENTIAE AVGG; Camp gate with two turrets, no door and star above; •ΓSIS• in exergue.
    Reference: RIC 200.
    From the Collection of an Anonymous CT Member.
    Ex: @John Anthony
  6. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

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  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    another son: Crispus from Nikomedia

    In the interest of equal time rules, below are the father and son Licinius I and II (both from Heraclea).
    ru4340bb1750.jpg ru4490bb1557.jpg

    ...and who could forget Magnus Maximus and sone Flavius Victor? These late campgates are just AE4 and dumpy compared to the early ones.

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  8. NicholasMaximus

    NicholasMaximus Active Member


    Thank you for sharing those coins! and you are right, I like that page very much. Almost too much, hopefully, I will still be able to grade some papers today lol.

    And thank you for reminding me about Crispus, the forgotten son! I think I tend to forget about him because of how tragic his story is, and because we will never know the true details (these unsolvable mysteries both fascinate and annoy me).

    I do think his story, is a tremendous stain on Constantine's legacy. I cant help but to think that the empire would have been in far better shape, post Constantine, if Crispus had assumed power. Instead his 3 half brothers divide the empire and civil war ensues.
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  9. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Licinius I 7.jpg
    AE3 Follis
    OBVERSE: IMP LICI-NIVS AVG, laureate bust right, wearing imperial mantle, holding globe, sceptre & mappa
    REVERSE: PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG, campgate with three turrets, no door, delta in right field SMHA in ex.
    Struck at Heraclea 318-320 AD
    3.0g, 18mm
    RIC VII 48
    Licinius II 4.jpg
    OBVERSE: D N VAL LICIN LICINIVS NOB C, laurate draped bust left, holding globe, sceptre & mappa
    REVERSE: PROVIDENTIAE CAESS, campgate with three turrets & no doors, 6 layers, dot over dot in right field, SMHD in ex.
    Struck at Heraclea, 317-320 AD
    3.3g, 19mm
    RIC VII 36
    Constantine I 16.jpg
    OBVERSE: CONSTANTINVS AVG, laureate bust right
    REVERSE: PROVIDENTIAE AVGG, campgate with two turrets and star above, SMKD in ex.
    Struck at Cyzicus 326-328 AD
    2.40 gm., 18 mm
    RIC VII 24,D

    Constantine II 15.jpg
    AE3 Follis
    OBVERSE: CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C, laureate (resembles pearl diadem), draped, cuirassed bust left
    REVERSE: PROVIDEN-TIAE CAESS, campgate, 2 turrets, 8 layers, star above, no door. Mintmark: SMKB, dot in left field
    Struck at Cyzicus, 329-330 AD
    3.7g, 19mm
    RIC VII 52
  10. NicholasMaximus

    NicholasMaximus Active Member

    @ominus1 @Alegandron


    & That is a really nice coin Alegandron! I love it when a coin maintains that layer of Silver.
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  11. NicholasMaximus

    NicholasMaximus Active Member


    Thanks! As I learn more about coins (and buy more) I find myself gravitating to the nicer/ more expensive options. I wanted to add some bulk to my collection, but I am finding the advice I was previously given to be absolutely correct.

    Buying one or two really nice coins, brings more joy than 5-6 decent coins.
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  12. NicholasMaximus

    NicholasMaximus Active Member


    Thanks for sharing those coins!! If I had to guess, that first Licinius is probably the most valuable coin of the ones you shared?

    But I have to say, there is something about the contrast between the desert patina and the coin markings of the last one, that really stands out to me. It was also minted at Cyzicus, just like my Constantine II.
  13. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..its like climbing mountains..they're all good, those you've conquered & captured, but always looking forward to the ones yet be had...:)
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  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    In truth, it is not the most expensive of the ones in that post. Actually, each coin cost me less that $21 and two less than $10. Ah, the good ole days!
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  15. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @NicholasMaximus......Nice looking coins...You did well and I particularly like the colour contrast on the son...Here's an L1 of mine...
    Licinius I (308-324 AD) AE3 Reduced Follis 18mm
    Obverse- IMPLICINIVS AVG- Laureate,draped bust left holding globe sceptre and mappa.
    Reverse- PROVDENTIAE AVGG- Campgate with 3 turrets,no door,8 layers.
    Exergue- HTA minted (316-317)Heraclea Thrace 1st oficina...RIC VII#15

    @dougsmit.....Lovely to see that Licinius I again...The portrait IMO is one of the nicest I've ever seen..:jawdrop:
  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    If 10 good old days dollars were harder to come by that $10 today, these might be the good not-so-old days. The old story, sad but true, is, "When I was a kid, Cokes were a nickel. I didn't have a nickel, so I didn't have a Coke."

    I believe we both have had recent experiences where we learned reselling lower end coins can fail to return what we paid years ago.
    Spaniard: That Licinius I was $34 from Dan Clark in 1998. That was a lot for an AE3 of Licinius that year but I loved the triple chin and would keep that coin if I were only allowed one Licinius. The man was not petite!
  17. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    That's the sad truth. However, I didn't get in this hobby to make a buck and neither did you. But being "elderly" (Covid-19 description, not mine), we've earned the right to talk about the good ole days whether they were or not, eh? I've tried to compare gas prices from 1965 to today by comparing what I earned then and now. Gas was really expensive at a quarter of a dollar per gallon.
  18. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    One quarter in 1965 was 1/140 ounce of gold, right?
    With 1700$ per ounce, that’s just over 12 bucks per gallon.
    Even Scandinavians would take to the streets in protest.
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  19. Carl Wilmont

    Carl Wilmont Supporter! Supporter

    Constantine I Campgate, posted earlier:


    AE Follis 2.80g. 19mm. 328-329 A.D. Nicomedia Mint. Pearl-diademed head right, CONSTAN-TINVS AVG / Campgate surmounted by two turrets, no doors; star above; in ex.: SMNΔ PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG
    RIC VII 153.

    For an interesting source of information on Constantine I and on how numismatics contribute to history, see Victor Clark's master's thesis, "Constantine the Great: The Coins Speak." It can be found mid-center-column on the main page of his website, constantinethegreatcoins.com. I'm reading it now.
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  20. NicholasMaximus

    NicholasMaximus Active Member

    @Carl Wilmont

    Thank you for sharing that coin! The centering and the detail are incredible on that one. I will definitely be checking out Mr. Clark's thesis as well, appreciate you mentioning it.
    Carl Wilmont likes this.
  21. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    @NicholasMaximus - I'm very glad I could help inspire your interests!

    You got a great pair there. I LOVE the crooked nose on your Constantine I :D

    I always thought it interesting that Jr often has tiny heads as compared to his father's fat head.

    Great set!!
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