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Message:: [QUOTE="Jaelus, post: 3962972, member: 46237"]2019 for me was focused primarily on building my modern Hungarian type set. In working on this set, I discovered something that is not documented well in any English or Hungarian catalog that I have found, which is that there are three distinct strike types for ultra-modern Hungarian coins. I consider the modern coinage period for Hungary to have started in 1946 for various reasons I have discussed before on this forum, however, I have not talked much about Hungarian ultra-moderns. After Hungary regained independence from the Soviets in 1989, there was a brief transitional coinage period, followed by a major transition for the Hungarian Mint. The mint incorporated in 1992, becoming the Hungarian Mint Ltd., with the National Bank of Hungary as the major shareholder (they would become the sole shareholder in 1996). This transformation of the mint began what I consider to be the ultra-modern period of Hungarian coinage. The issues of 1992 were sparse, with a high mintage for the new 1 forint and 2 forint coins, and a relatively low mintage for the 5 forint coin. The higher denomination coins of 10, 20, 50, and 100 forint, however, were issued only in MS and PP (proof) mint sets with a mintage of only 2000 business strike sets and 1000 proof sets (any 1992 mint set will bring about $300-$400 in today's market). The mint began minting these new coins with appreciable mintages in 1993. Although they inadvertently used some pattern obverse dies for the 1993 mint sets, the mint products for 1993 were fairly typical for what had been produced up to that point. Starting in 1994 things got confusing with the mint sets. Some proof sets had coins in them that were not proof issues, and they started striking coins that did not look like the typical business strikes. Confusingly, the mint referred to these coins as "BU", however, this is not the same as what American collectors would consider to be BU coins! Most collectors of Hungarian moderns apparently opt for the "BU" coins available in these sets as they are high grade, and use them for examples of the business strike type, however, they are not business strikes! There are several key differences between the BU coins, the typical business strikes (the mint calls these "UNC" now, so I will use that term here), and the PP (proof) issues: UNC (business strike) issues:Rims: RoundedFields: MatteDevices: Matte BU issues:Rims: SquaredFields: High GlossDevices: High Gloss (no cameo) PP (proof) issues:Rims: SquaredFields: MirroredDevices: Frosted (cameo) As you can see from the above, the BU issues have more in common with the proof issues than with the business strikes, but they still have a distinct appearance that is very different from proofs. Mint sets all became "BU" starting with the 1994 sets, and all non-proof mint sets contained "BU" coins, through the 2011 mint sets. As for the business strikes, the only way to get actual high grade business strike issues from 1994-2011 was to pull them from circulation or to order mint bags or rolls. As you can imagine, high grade business strikes from this period are much harder to come by once you realize that the mint sets contain a different product. In 2012, Hungary changed it's name from "The Republic of Hungary" to "Hungary" and accordingly updated the legends on their coinage. At the same time, the mint also started issuing year sets in UNC, BU, and PP (proof), so you could get high grade business strikes again in mint sets starting in 2012. For commemorative issues, however, not all were released in all three sets, and a few circulating commemoratives were only released in mint bags and rolls. More recent commemorative issues have also been released on numbered "first day" cards. This was a special mint product that tended to contain high grade (MS67-69) examples of business strikes, as apparently they received much better handling than examples released through other methods. BU and PP (proof) issues continue to be available exclusively through BU or PP mint sets. NGC had been slabbing these BU issues as MS coins - in one case I saw a seller on eBay with an entire 2004 mint set (BU issues) where every single coin had been slabbed with the DPL designation. A true MS DPL set like that would be an extreme rarity and most likely doesn't even exist. I pointed out to NGC that as these coins had been intentionally struck with that finish, they do not meet their definition of prooflike (as it is a distinct mint product). Based on the information I sent to them about the BU mint sets, they have changed their position, and are now treating these coins the same as the Canadian PL issues. They have now correctly slabbed coins for me dated as early as 1995 with the new Hungarian modern PLxx designation. Here are some examples of the three strike types, how they differ in appearance, and how NGC now grades and catalogs them: Hungary 2003BP 20 Forint (Deák Ferenc)NGC MS66 (UNC Issue)As this is a pre-2012 coin, it is available only through mint bags/rolls, or circulation in this finish.[ATTACH=full]1043745[/ATTACH] Hungary 2003BP 20 Forint (Deák Ferenc)NGC PL66 (BU Issue)From BU mint sets only.[ATTACH=full]1043749[/ATTACH] Hungary 2003BP 20 Forint (Deák Ferenc)NGC PF67 ULTRA CAMEO (Proof Issue)From proof mint sets only.[ATTACH=full]1043747[/ATTACH] Some additional examples of a non-commemorative issue. The sourcing is the same as for the above coins. Hungary 2009BP 200 ForintNGC MS67 (UNC Issue)[ATTACH=full]1043744[/ATTACH] Hungary 2009BP 200 ForintNGC PL68 (BU Issue)[ATTACH=full]1043748[/ATTACH] Hungary 2009BP 200 ForintNGC PF69 ULTRA CAMEO (Proof Issue)[ATTACH=full]1043746[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

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