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A hybrid Roman Republican denarius -- could it possibly be real?
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<p>[QUOTE="dougsmit, post: 4712227, member: 19463"]It should be mentioned that there are RR coins where the dies were numbered but not paired 'for life' with a broken reverse die replaced with the first obverse and the first obverse discarded when it failed making a pattern 1/1,1/2,2/2,2/3,2/4,3/4,3,5,3/6 etc. </p><p>Since reverse dies usually fail before obverses, issues using this system reached the high numbers with a great disparity but the reverse number was always higher. The example of Capito suggests that a usable obverse die would be thrown out as a pair with its broken reverse. The Piso below shows the other, more economical, option where obverse 77 paired with reverse 94. </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155913[/ATTACH] </p><p><a href="https://www.cngcoins.com/Lot.aspx?LOT_ID=15119&BACK_URL=%2fLots.aspx%3fIS_ADVANCED%3d1%26ITEM_IS_SOLD%3d1%26ITEM_INVENTORY_NUMBER%3d%26CONTAINER_NAME%3d%26ITEM_LOT_NUMBER%3d%26ITEM_DESC%3dl%2bcalpurnius%2bpiso%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4%3d1%26VIEW_TYPE%3d0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cngcoins.com/Lot.aspx?LOT_ID=15119&BACK_URL=%2fLots.aspx%3fIS_ADVANCED%3d1%26ITEM_IS_SOLD%3d1%26ITEM_INVENTORY_NUMBER%3d%26CONTAINER_NAME%3d%26ITEM_LOT_NUMBER%3d%26ITEM_DESC%3dl%2bcalpurnius%2bpiso%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4%3d1%26VIEW_TYPE%3d0" rel="nofollow">https://www.cngcoins.com/Lot.aspx?LOT_ID=15119&BACK_URL=/Lots.aspx?IS_ADVANCED=1&ITEM_IS_SOLD=1&ITEM_INVENTORY_NUMBER=&CONTAINER_NAME=&ITEM_LOT_NUMBER=&ITEM_DESC=l+calpurnius+piso&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4=1&VIEW_TYPE=0</a></p><p>The above shows 85/106 suggesting that, between my coin and CNG's, there were 8 obverse dies and 12 reverse dies. That does not mean that all still exist but it might be fun to research. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I will never understand the mindset that says just because there is one plated coin that is proven unofficial that ALL plated coins are unofficial. 'Rules' on the matter may have changed over time and place. It is hard enough to 'prove' solid coins are official in every case across the spectrum of coinage. I do note a larger number of Imperatorial are fourree than other periods. I always wondered if some of them were made on the sly by someone who wanted to discredit a strongman by putting out bad coins in his name. There is no way to prove that a coin was made by a crook or a political opponent (possibly both). </p><p><br /></p><p>If I were to go into the fourree making business back then, I would do something to assure I did not accept my bad coins back in trade after I had moved them on to some sucker. One way to do this would be to combine sides incorrectly. This is another matter that can never be proven. I can't prove it is; you can't prove it is not. </p><p>These three coins illustrate another mismatched set. </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155921[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155922[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155923[/ATTACH] </p><p>I suggest that, if the seller will take the coin back, you should return it. I doubt it will grow on you in future years. I would consider it inappropriate to ask for a partial refund. It would be most interesting if the coin is returned and later relisted for sale without a modification of the description. I have bought enough from that particular seller to believe that it would not and I would be unhappy if it were. Trust is hard to develop and easy to destroy.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="dougsmit, post: 4712227, member: 19463"]It should be mentioned that there are RR coins where the dies were numbered but not paired 'for life' with a broken reverse die replaced with the first obverse and the first obverse discarded when it failed making a pattern 1/1,1/2,2/2,2/3,2/4,3/4,3,5,3/6 etc. Since reverse dies usually fail before obverses, issues using this system reached the high numbers with a great disparity but the reverse number was always higher. The example of Capito suggests that a usable obverse die would be thrown out as a pair with its broken reverse. The Piso below shows the other, more economical, option where obverse 77 paired with reverse 94. [ATTACH=full]1155913[/ATTACH] [URL]https://www.cngcoins.com/Lot.aspx?LOT_ID=15119&BACK_URL=%2fLots.aspx%3fIS_ADVANCED%3d1%26ITEM_IS_SOLD%3d1%26ITEM_INVENTORY_NUMBER%3d%26CONTAINER_NAME%3d%26ITEM_LOT_NUMBER%3d%26ITEM_DESC%3dl%2bcalpurnius%2bpiso%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2%3d1%26SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4%3d1%26VIEW_TYPE%3d0[/URL] The above shows 85/106 suggesting that, between my coin and CNG's, there were 8 obverse dies and 12 reverse dies. That does not mean that all still exist but it might be fun to research. I will never understand the mindset that says just because there is one plated coin that is proven unofficial that ALL plated coins are unofficial. 'Rules' on the matter may have changed over time and place. It is hard enough to 'prove' solid coins are official in every case across the spectrum of coinage. I do note a larger number of Imperatorial are fourree than other periods. I always wondered if some of them were made on the sly by someone who wanted to discredit a strongman by putting out bad coins in his name. There is no way to prove that a coin was made by a crook or a political opponent (possibly both). If I were to go into the fourree making business back then, I would do something to assure I did not accept my bad coins back in trade after I had moved them on to some sucker. One way to do this would be to combine sides incorrectly. This is another matter that can never be proven. I can't prove it is; you can't prove it is not. These three coins illustrate another mismatched set. [ATTACH=full]1155921[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155922[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155923[/ATTACH] I suggest that, if the seller will take the coin back, you should return it. I doubt it will grow on you in future years. I would consider it inappropriate to ask for a partial refund. It would be most interesting if the coin is returned and later relisted for sale without a modification of the description. I have bought enough from that particular seller to believe that it would not and I would be unhappy if it were. Trust is hard to develop and easy to destroy.[/QUOTE]
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A hybrid Roman Republican denarius -- could it possibly be real?
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