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Message:: [QUOTE="Curtisimo, post: 8074167, member: 83845"]This is the third installment in a series of vignette style threads that I decided to undertake in order to help me catch up on write ups for interesting coins in my collection that I haven’t posted before.  I have previously posted two such threads<ul> <li><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-group-of-interesting-coins-greek-edition.384390/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-group-of-interesting-coins-greek-edition.384390/">A Group of Interesting Coins: Greek Edition</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-group-of-interesting-coins-roman-edition.386308/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-group-of-interesting-coins-roman-edition.386308/">A Group of Interesting Coins: Roman Edition</a></li> </ul>This thread will focus on medieval coins.  Later, I will post one final thread in the series covering some interesting Byzantine coins. Writing this post has served to remind me just how critical the members I interact with on CoinTalk have become to the study of my collection.  I would not have been able to understand any of the below coins nearly as well as I do without the help of several of the knowledgeable members who are kind enough to share their knowledge and coins with others.  I will be posting individual thank you notes for each coin in recognition of the help I received from the members here but I also want to extend a general thank you to the members who consistently help others on the forum. A Crusader Coin Showing a Converted Roman Temple?[ATTACH=full]1401246[/ATTACH]Crusaders, Duchy of AthensRegency of Helena Angelina for Guy II de la Roche (AD 1287-1291)BI Denier Tournois, Thebes mint, struck ca. AD 1287-1288(?)Dia.: 19 mmWt.: 0.82 gObv.: + ⦂ ThEBE ⦂ CIVIS ⦂ Chateau tournoisRev.: + ⦂ G ⦂ DVX ⦂ ATENES ⦂ Cross patteeRef.: Malloy 86, Tzamalis GR105 My Notes:This coin is doubly interesting because it is both a crusader coin as well as a fascinating architecture type.  As a further bonus, the legends are clear enough that even I (with my limited medieval experience) can read them clearly. It was struck in the Duchy of Athens by Helena Angelina as regent for her son Guy II de la Roche.  The Duchy of Athens and the other Crusader states of Greece were formed in the aftermath of the Fourth Crusade.  I can’t possibly improve upon <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-fleeting-view-of-athens-as-realm-of-the-frankokratia.351376/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-fleeting-view-of-athens-as-realm-of-the-frankokratia.351376/">the excellent thread</a> posted by [USER=56653]@seth77[/USER] on this subject here so I will not attempt to.  Instead I will only say that the Fourth Crusade was a fiasco of an operation that decided it was easier to sack Constantinople and conquer parts of the Byzantine Empire than it was to do any of the things the crusade initially set out to do.  Some folks were definitely excommunicated... At first glance the type looks like it depicts a cathedral.  When I first became aware of the design that is what I assumed it was.  However, after some research on CT I came across the below graphic that shows a progression of the design from what is clearly a temple into the “cathedral-like” design on my OP.   The early examples were struck by Loius the Pious ca. AD 800. [ATTACH=full]1401254[/ATTACH]Page from Poey d'Avant (1864) (Courtesy of John Scholefield in post linked below) I think it is not at all a stretch to think that in its initial conception we could be looking at a pagan temple that has been converted into a Christian place of worship.  Some of the most famous buildings of antiquity (such as the Pantheon) were converted into early Christian churches.  Initially, the appearance of these buildings would not have been altered substantially.  However, over time many converted temples were significantly altered in appearance.  I don’t know if this has anything to do with the changes to the design of the coins over time or if this was just simple artistic drift over the centuries.  Probably more of the latter but I still think it is an interesting parallel worthy of note. [ATTACH=full]1401276[/ATTACH]This is probably the poster child for temples that have been converted into churches.  This is the Temple of Faustina in the Roman Forum. (Author's Photo) Thank you: [USER=56653]@seth77[/USER] , [USER=116562]@John Scholefield[/USER]I would not have known how interesting these coins really were if it wasn’t for the post from Seth that I link to above.  His thread provided enough information that I was able to understand what this coin was when I saw it at auction (it was misattributed) and I was able to identify it more specifically thanks to the excellent information he provided in that thread.  If you haven’t read that thread I cannot recommend it enough.  It is one of my favorite threads on medieval coins on the forum. In addition, <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/help-in-identifying-a-denier-tournois.376745/#post-6648799" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/help-in-identifying-a-denier-tournois.376745/#post-6648799">John’s posts in this thread</a> helped me better understand the evolution of the type and how it could be related to temple architecture.  It was from that thread that I came across the above graphic of the evolution of the design. King John of Magna Carta… also the Wimpy Lion from Robin Hood[ATTACH=full]1401247[/ATTACH]Medieval EnglandKing John Lackland (AD 1199 – 1216)AR Short Cross Penny, London mint, struck ca. AD 1207 – 1210Dia.: 18.5 mmWt.: 0.6 gObv.: HENRICVS REX; Crowned bust of king holding scepterRev.: +ABEL.ON.LVNDE; Short voided cross with quatrefoil in each angle, pellet stopsClass 5c (N. 971; S. 1352) My Notes:In most histories, King John of England is regarded as one of the worst monarchs to sit on the English throne.  Most notably, he managed to lose almost the entirety of the Angevin Empire during his reign.  The best thing that can be said about his leadership is that he antagonized his nobility so much that they forced him to sign the Magna Carta.  Not a great resume.  John’s terrible reputation has led to all sorts of legends and stories being set in his time by later writers, such as Robin Hood and Ivanhoe.  I encourage you to check out <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/john-lackland-the-rotten-king-of-england.304915/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/john-lackland-the-rotten-king-of-england.304915/">this thread</a> by [USER=87080]@TheRed[/USER] that speaks a bit more eloquently about King John and his background (and shows a fantastic coin!). I have known who King John was for almost the entirety of my life thanks to the Disney cartoon Robin Hood.  Upon reaching adulthood(…ish) I was very disappointed to learn that King John was not a scrawny talking lion with a habit of sucking his thumb.  Oh well. [ATTACH=full]1401298[/ATTACH] This coin, like many short cross pennies, was cut to make change in the middle ages.  The voided cross design helped facilitate this.  I have read that a penny during this period would have been a day’s wage for a skilled laborer and would have bought two gallons of ale.  I like to think that the owner of my coin was trying to cut back a bit and only required one gallon of ale that day. Thank you: [USER=91461]@Ryro[/USER] , [USER=74712]@FitzNigel[/USER] , [USER=87080]@TheRed[/USER]I received this coin from The Scooby himself as part of a holiday exchange.  I was struggling to narrow the attribution down between John and Henry III since all of the indicators to differentiate that I knew about were on the missing part of the bust.  I reached out to two folks I knew would be able to help; [USER=74712]@FitzNigel[/USER] and [USER=87080]@TheRed[/USER].  Needless to say I was not disappointed.  They both were willing to check their libraries and provided great information that helped me narrow it down.  I was able to learn a lot about this coin that would have been impossible for me if I wouldn’t have had these two specialists as resources.  Thanks guys! Early Feudal Coinage of France[ATTACH=full]1401275[/ATTACH]Feudal FranceAnonymous; Bishopric of Le Puy-en-VelayBI Denier, Le Puy mint, struck ca. 11th – 12th century ADDia.: 18 mmWt.: 0.9 gObv.: Cross with four armsRev.: Cross with six arms My Notes:The city and Bishopric of Le Puy were formed around Mont Anis where a shrine to the Virgin Mary and then a Christian cathedral replaced an earlier pagan holy site (ca. 5th century?).  The city was the starting point of the most popular pilgrimage route of the Middle Ages in France.  French kings as far back as Charlemagne visited the location.  There was a legend that the Virgin Mary had appeared to a sick widow at the site. The bishopric of Le Puy was unusual in that it received the right to mint its own coins in AD 924.  It vied with a rival mint under the Polignac family.  This meant that neither mint could debase the coins for fear that the opposing mint would gain supremacy as the dominant currency of the region.  The right of the bishopric to mint coins was reaffirmed by the French king in the 11th century. [ATTACH=full]1401243[/ATTACH]Le Puy-en-Velay with the Cathedral shown at right and Mont Anis at left. (Photo courtesy of Wikimedia Commons) Thank you: [USER=77077]@Theodosius[/USER] , [USER=56653]@seth77[/USER] , [USER=91461]@Ryro[/USER]This was a holiday gift from everyone’s favorite fine style fanatic; [USER=77077]@Theodosius[/USER] .  For a long time I didn’t know how to even start to attribute.  Google searches for “pronged clover shaped think-y on silver coin” proved no help at all. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie81" alt=":shifty:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie20" alt=":banghead:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />  It wasn’t until I posted the coin to Seth’s thread <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/things-we-just-cant-identify.386474/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/things-we-just-cant-identify.386474/">here</a> that I learned from Ryro that this coin was from Le Puy-en-Velay.  Seth followed up with help on the time period and the rest was just fun history researching from there. Thank you for the help guys! References<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-fleeting-view-of-athens-as-realm-of-the-frankokratia.351376/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-fleeting-view-of-athens-as-realm-of-the-frankokratia.351376/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-fleeting-view-of-athens-as-realm-of-the-frankokratia.351376/</a> <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/help-in-identifying-a-denier-tournois.376745/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/help-in-identifying-a-denier-tournois.376745/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/help-in-identifying-a-denier-tournois.376745/</a> <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/john-lackland-the-rotten-king-of-england.304915/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/john-lackland-the-rotten-king-of-england.304915/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/john-lackland-the-rotten-king-of-england.304915/</a> <a href="https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Book_of_the_Cevennes/Le_Velay" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Book_of_the_Cevennes/Le_Velay" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Book_of_the_Cevennes/Le_Velay</a> Pile onPlease post anything and everything you feel is relevant.  A few suggestions;<ul> <li>Cathedrals or temples on medieval coins</li> <li>Any and all Deniers</li> <li>Feudal Coins</li> <li>Crusader Coins</li> <li>Coins of historical figures made into cartoons</li> <li>Coins you needed help from CT members to identify</li> <li>Anything at all...</li> </ul>[/QUOTE]

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