Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
A Gothic Fourée Aureus of Diocletian
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Julius Germanicus, post: 3810446, member: 80783"]That is an amazing find! </p><p>Here are my observations and conclusions:</p><p><br /></p><p><b>1st observation:</b></p><p>28 of the 29 coins of this type listed (Nr.7 is my coin) were found in neighboring regions in the western part of modern Ukraine, northeast of the river Dnjestr (except one that was found in the Republic of Moldova, southwest of the Dnjestr).</p><p><br /></p><p>My conclusion:</p><p>The division of the Goths, which is first attested in 291 AD, a decade or so before these coins were struck, resulted in the Greuthungi (which were equated with Theoderich´s Ostrogothi by Jordanes in his Getica) living east of the river Dnjestr, while the Thervingi (Visigothi) settled west of the Dnjestr.</p><p>Therefore these artifacts can not only be associated with what we know as the Goths (archeologically identified as the Chernyakhov culture), but more precisely as „East-Gothic“.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>2nd observation:</b></p><p>The highest concentration was found in the Ternopil oblast (11 specimens) and the Khmelnitsky oblast (8 specimens) east of it. One was found in the Rivne oblast (north of Khmelnitski), one in the Vinnytsia oblast (east of Khmelnitsky), one in Cherkasy (east of Vinnytsia), two in the Kiev oblast (Northeast of Vinnytsia), one in the Republic of Moldova (south of Vinnytsia).</p><p><br /></p><p>My conclusion:</p><p>If these coins were minted at one place, this mint was probably located in the eastern part of the Ternopil oblast, maybe in some sort of a gothic „capital“. It is known that there were gothic settlements of up to 35 hectares in size and it can be expected that Ermanaric or his predecessors had some sort of administrative center to control their kingdom.</p><p>The distribution of the coins shows the extension of the central rule eastward to the Dnjepr river.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>3rd observation:</b></p><p>While all 29 specimens obviously share the same obverse and the same reverse die, 27 coins have the reverse aligned upside down (6 h), while two (both holed) have it aligned with the obverse (12 h).</p><p><br /></p><p>My conclusion:</p><p>While the coins were struck using the same pair of dies, they were not struck by the same workers or at the same occasion.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>4th observation:</b></p><p>All of the 26 plated coins are holed, while two of the three golden specimens are looped.</p><p><br /></p><p>My conclusion:</p><p>There seem to have been simultanuous emissions for higher ranking soldiers/officials (full gold, usually looped) and as jewelry for the average warrior (gold plated with a hole). The former way of attachment must have been more prestiguous. The theory that the earliest barbarian imitations were holed and later issues were looped, cannot be confirmed (but see next paragraph).</p><p><br /></p><p><b>5th observation:</b></p><p>The three golden coins seem to display less detail than the best of the plated coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>My conclusion:</p><p>The golden coins (including their obverses) were used or even made for circulation and only fitted with a loop later on to make them jewelry. This corresponds with the fact that two of he three unplated coins have their loops attached differently, while the third had not (yet) been fitted with a loop at all.</p><p>The plated specimens were holed before gilding and therefore made as jewelry right away.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>6th observation:</b></p><p>The average gold specimen weights 5,8 gr with a range of 5,0 to 6,6 gr, the average plated coin 2,96 gr with a range of 2.36 to 3,62 gr, not accounting for loops and holes.</p><p><br /></p><p>My conclusion:</p><p>There may indeed have been some sort of „weight standard“, at least one more consistant than that applied to Roman coins of the time.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>What do you think?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Julius Germanicus, post: 3810446, member: 80783"]That is an amazing find! Here are my observations and conclusions: [B]1st observation:[/B] 28 of the 29 coins of this type listed (Nr.7 is my coin) were found in neighboring regions in the western part of modern Ukraine, northeast of the river Dnjestr (except one that was found in the Republic of Moldova, southwest of the Dnjestr). My conclusion: The division of the Goths, which is first attested in 291 AD, a decade or so before these coins were struck, resulted in the Greuthungi (which were equated with Theoderich´s Ostrogothi by Jordanes in his Getica) living east of the river Dnjestr, while the Thervingi (Visigothi) settled west of the Dnjestr. Therefore these artifacts can not only be associated with what we know as the Goths (archeologically identified as the Chernyakhov culture), but more precisely as „East-Gothic“. [B]2nd observation:[/B] The highest concentration was found in the Ternopil oblast (11 specimens) and the Khmelnitsky oblast (8 specimens) east of it. One was found in the Rivne oblast (north of Khmelnitski), one in the Vinnytsia oblast (east of Khmelnitsky), one in Cherkasy (east of Vinnytsia), two in the Kiev oblast (Northeast of Vinnytsia), one in the Republic of Moldova (south of Vinnytsia). My conclusion: If these coins were minted at one place, this mint was probably located in the eastern part of the Ternopil oblast, maybe in some sort of a gothic „capital“. It is known that there were gothic settlements of up to 35 hectares in size and it can be expected that Ermanaric or his predecessors had some sort of administrative center to control their kingdom. The distribution of the coins shows the extension of the central rule eastward to the Dnjepr river. [B]3rd observation:[/B] While all 29 specimens obviously share the same obverse and the same reverse die, 27 coins have the reverse aligned upside down (6 h), while two (both holed) have it aligned with the obverse (12 h). My conclusion: While the coins were struck using the same pair of dies, they were not struck by the same workers or at the same occasion. [B]4th observation:[/B] All of the 26 plated coins are holed, while two of the three golden specimens are looped. My conclusion: There seem to have been simultanuous emissions for higher ranking soldiers/officials (full gold, usually looped) and as jewelry for the average warrior (gold plated with a hole). The former way of attachment must have been more prestiguous. The theory that the earliest barbarian imitations were holed and later issues were looped, cannot be confirmed (but see next paragraph). [B]5th observation:[/B] The three golden coins seem to display less detail than the best of the plated coins. My conclusion: The golden coins (including their obverses) were used or even made for circulation and only fitted with a loop later on to make them jewelry. This corresponds with the fact that two of he three unplated coins have their loops attached differently, while the third had not (yet) been fitted with a loop at all. The plated specimens were holed before gilding and therefore made as jewelry right away. [B]6th observation:[/B] The average gold specimen weights 5,8 gr with a range of 5,0 to 6,6 gr, the average plated coin 2,96 gr with a range of 2.36 to 3,62 gr, not accounting for loops and holes. My conclusion: There may indeed have been some sort of „weight standard“, at least one more consistant than that applied to Roman coins of the time. What do you think?[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
A Gothic Fourée Aureus of Diocletian
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...