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<p>[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 4731185, member: 110504"]Many thanks, Seth, for your comments, especially the valued qualifications. --Starting with your citation of Spufford. The first goof on the initial post that jumped out at me was my neglect to point out how the feudal deniers parisis are very proximate to the issues from various royal mints, not only chronologically, but geographically. (Northeast, more or less Picardy up to the border of Flanders.) But even better, I was racking my brain for that dim memory of the Robert denier having possibly been continued by Robert III. (Gulp, Full Disclosure Notice: I don't have a copy of Legros, and only cite him from responsible listings on the web --.cgb, inumis, etc.) At press time, I couldn't find anything. ...The Spufford citation is invaluable. Massive thanks. ...Gonna price the book online.</p><p>...Proceeding to your other brilliant posts. I should spend real time with your one on the Gisors Hoard, and everything else you've already posted. I had no idea even that the deposit date was as late as mid-13th c. ...Otherwise, Wow. Great minds think alike, or something. My examples of Hugues of Dreux and Roger of Nogent are both fragments; the other deniers parisis run to being a little better than yours. ...I was contemplating starting a post on Renaud de Dammartin, Comte de Boulogne, to complement this one, but I better double check what you've already said about <i>him</i>!</p><p>More broadly, in the case of the feudal parises (sic), I wonder whether the motivations of the issuing authorities inhabited something of a spectrum. Some of them, notably Renaud, may have seen the imitation of the latest royal type --but in their own name (conspicuously in the issues of Boulogne)-- as an almost ironic reassertion of feudal semi-autonomy, beyond mere concession to royal convention. To pontificate, the first half of the 13th century in France has particular fascination for the machinations of various feudal princes to reassert their autonomy, now that, for the interval in question, royal ascendancy is already on what looks like an inexorable upward trajectory. (...With the benefit of eight centuries of hindsight!) </p><p>It's no accident that this happens more or less contemporaneously to what was happening in England, with the Magna Carta war(s), and the 'Barons' War' (and its immediate aftermath) in the closing years of Henry III. It was almost a case of the French aristocracy reacting to the same kind of royal overreach that the Anglo-Normans were seeing, but in a different context, and commensurately with that much less civic-minded window dressing. ...Ironically (<i>or</i> not), Henry III contributed money and entire campaigns to several of the best-known baronial revolts in France, in the interests of leveraging the return of some of the Angevin Empire (...dumb construct; running with it anyway).</p><p>...My two cents, for what they're worth. ...And for now, to make further resort to combined cliche, that's all the fat lady wrote.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 4731185, member: 110504"]Many thanks, Seth, for your comments, especially the valued qualifications. --Starting with your citation of Spufford. The first goof on the initial post that jumped out at me was my neglect to point out how the feudal deniers parisis are very proximate to the issues from various royal mints, not only chronologically, but geographically. (Northeast, more or less Picardy up to the border of Flanders.) But even better, I was racking my brain for that dim memory of the Robert denier having possibly been continued by Robert III. (Gulp, Full Disclosure Notice: I don't have a copy of Legros, and only cite him from responsible listings on the web --.cgb, inumis, etc.) At press time, I couldn't find anything. ...The Spufford citation is invaluable. Massive thanks. ...Gonna price the book online. ...Proceeding to your other brilliant posts. I should spend real time with your one on the Gisors Hoard, and everything else you've already posted. I had no idea even that the deposit date was as late as mid-13th c. ...Otherwise, Wow. Great minds think alike, or something. My examples of Hugues of Dreux and Roger of Nogent are both fragments; the other deniers parisis run to being a little better than yours. ...I was contemplating starting a post on Renaud de Dammartin, Comte de Boulogne, to complement this one, but I better double check what you've already said about [I]him[/I]! More broadly, in the case of the feudal parises (sic), I wonder whether the motivations of the issuing authorities inhabited something of a spectrum. Some of them, notably Renaud, may have seen the imitation of the latest royal type --but in their own name (conspicuously in the issues of Boulogne)-- as an almost ironic reassertion of feudal semi-autonomy, beyond mere concession to royal convention. To pontificate, the first half of the 13th century in France has particular fascination for the machinations of various feudal princes to reassert their autonomy, now that, for the interval in question, royal ascendancy is already on what looks like an inexorable upward trajectory. (...With the benefit of eight centuries of hindsight!) It's no accident that this happens more or less contemporaneously to what was happening in England, with the Magna Carta war(s), and the 'Barons' War' (and its immediate aftermath) in the closing years of Henry III. It was almost a case of the French aristocracy reacting to the same kind of royal overreach that the Anglo-Normans were seeing, but in a different context, and commensurately with that much less civic-minded window dressing. ...Ironically ([I]or[/I] not), Henry III contributed money and entire campaigns to several of the best-known baronial revolts in France, in the interests of leveraging the return of some of the Angevin Empire (...dumb construct; running with it anyway). ...My two cents, for what they're worth. ...And for now, to make further resort to combined cliche, that's all the fat lady wrote.[/QUOTE]
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