A fine Virgin Mary Follis just arrived

27.44mm

10.00gm

Sorry for delay, had to go get it. It is beautiful just weaker on the dots surrounding portraits. I like the balance on your coin, very attractive.

 

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At least part of the time, I think the size and weight discrepancies are owing to many of them being counterstruck over older follis. I have seen some anonymous follis where enough of the earlier coin(s)' designs show through to attribute it as well (and even one where the expert was able to identify TWO previous strikes), but I would think most of the time, the mint tried to overstrike worn coins and strike so as to obliterate as much as possible of the remnants of the previous design.

 

Well, let's face it. Iconoclasm was a big whammy for the society and a very controversial one. The man on the street and the lower rank clergy never supported it and that's why icons eventually made a comeback. It was a sad chapter even for non-Christians as it led to the loss of vast amounts of amazing art. Thank God we still have Ravvena, but the sad reality is that in the whole Greece and Turkey there are only fragments of pre-iconoclasm mosaic art left. It is said that one of the inspirations for the iconoclastic movement was the new and emerging Islamic ideas about divine representation. Even if that is the case, the destruction of all that art was an own goal really...

 

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3103456

 

How about the same design in Lead?

Byzantine Empire: Anonymous (ca. 11-12th Century) Pb Seal (unpublished)

Obv: IC-XC to left and right of bust of Christ with beard and nimbus cruciger, wearing pallium and colobium, raising hand in benediction and holding Book of Gospels inside border
Rev: M-Θ to left and right of Mary, nimbate, hands raised inside border

 

Oh, definitely on the overstrikes. Overstrikes are extremely common in the series. My Class J, the best I was able to find, is an overstrike over a Class I. Class J is the only Class I only have one copy of. I even have 3 Class H's, which traditionally is listed as the rarest.

 

@arnoldoe Thanks for the link. Will do some research this weekend.

 

A slightly less artistic version...

Bulgarian Kingdom. Ivan Shishman, AD 1371-1395. AR Half-Grosh (15mm, 0.59g, 6h). Tarnovo mint. Obv: M - Θ in field; Half bust of the Virgin orans, with figure of nimbate infant Christ to her breast, raising both hands. Rev: Half figure of emperor, holding cross-tipped sceptre; symbols around. Ref: Dochev 4440.

 

Oh, you pulled a Bulgarian on me! There are several Virgin orans outside of the Byzantine Empire and that particular coin is an example of it. Really nice one too...

 

My 30 mm, 8.2 gr Class G


If we switch to a general Virgin orans theme, then here's two more:

Andronicus I, tetarteron, 22 mm, 4.0 gr, Sear 1987


Manuel I, tetarteron, 19.5 mm, 3.4 gr, Sear 1970


Anyone with a nice Sear 1930?

 

Here are a few others with Virgin Orans:


Byzantine Empire: Constantine IX (1042-1055) 2/3 Miliaresion, Constantinople (Sear-1835)
Obv: H RΛAXERNITICA; MP - ΘV on either side of facing bust of the Virgin orans, nimbate and wearing pallium and maphorium.
Rev: ΘKE R Θ KWNCTANTINW ΔECΠOTH TW MONOMAX in 5 lines



Byzantine Empire: Andronicus I Comnenus (1183-1185) Æ Tetarteron, Thessalonica (Sear 1987; DOC IV, 6)
Obv: MP - ΘV in field; Bust of Virgin nimbate orans, wearing tunic and maphorion; beardless, nimbate head of Christ on breast
Rev: ANΔPO-NIKOC; Bust of emperor wearing stemma, skaramangion or divitision, and saigon; holds in right hand labarum-headed scepter, and in left, globus cruciger
Dim: 21 mm; 4.76 g



Byzantine Empire: Æ Anonymous Class K Follis, Attributed to Alexius I Comnenus (Sear 1901; DOC K.1)
Obv: Bust of Christ facing, wearing nimbus cruciger, pallium and colobium, and raising right hand in benediction; in left hand, book of Gospels; to left, IC; to right, XC. Border of large pellets; Mardin Hoard Countermark #10 (عدل‎) and #17 (لله)
Rev: Three-quarter length figure of the Virgin orans facing, nimbate, wearing pallium and maphorium; to left of nimbus, M; to right, Θ



Latin Rulers of Constantinople: Anonymous (1204-1261) BI Large Module, Constantinople (Sear 2039; CLBC 11.18.1; DOC IV Type S; Grierson 1259)
Obv: Columnar legend O/A/ΓΙ/OC to left, NЄ/T/P/O/C to right; Full-length figure of Saint Peter nimbate, wearing tunic and kolobion, holds in right hand scepter cruciger, and in left, two keys
Rev: MP - ΘV in upper field, columnar legend A/ΓΙO/CO to left, PI/TI/CA to right; Full-length figure of Virgin Hagisoritissa nimbate, orans, turned to right, wearing tunic and maphorion; Manus Dei in upper field
Dim: 32 mm, 3.71 g



Latin Rulers of Constantinople: Anonymous (1204-1261) Æ Half-tetarteron, Constantinople (Sear 2058; CLBC 11.26; DOC IV Type A; Grierson 1265)
Obv: MP - ΘV in field; Bust of Virgin nimbate, wearing tunic and maphorion
Rev: Leaved patriarchal cross
Dim: 19 mm, 2.26 g

 

Wow, where did all the Virgin Marys come from? Gentlemen bravo, you posted some pretty nice rarities... All these tetartera... (But I give you a hint, you may have to post them again in a few days... )

This is a very nice example. And a perfect opportunity to resurrect the earlier discussion about the possible veneration of these coins. Both faces appear to be rubbed. There is no similar wear else on the coin, so could it be evidence of prayer use? But why rubbing the faces? Or could it be vandalism? If you visit Greece or Turkey today you will notice that in many churches the faces of the saints on the wall paintings have been scratched off. That was done by the Ottoman occupiers because as mentioned earlier faces of divinity are not allowed in islam.

 

Patina is black and smooth, there are no scratches or cuts to indicate vandalism, and the way the details erased off the face of Christ indicate wear. Rubbing the coin in the old days is a plausible cause.
I got the coin with more dirt on it and only the faces exposed, but the wear must be as old as the coin. The former owner was against cleaning. Dirt around the faces was uniform in texture and colour. I exclude the possibility that the dirt was applied (cleaned a few coins, would have noted the difference) or that the coin was rubbed by former owners to that level of wear (patina solid, dirt around the face not rubbed).

 

@Only a Poor Old Man, thank you for your invariably incisive comments on the historical and religious context(s). And, from here, for the opportunity to correct an earlier oversight, relative to your observations (back a ways in this thread) about the loss of religious art, only starting with mosaics, during the height of Iconoclasm.
You're cordially welcome to consider the source (--Protestant? Busted), but your grief is shared by yours truly, as it should be by the rest of the global human community.
...Notably with what Daesh, and the Taliban before them, have been doing to our communal cultural heritage that much more recently.
Except, regarding the possible influence of early Islamic theology on the Iconoclast movement, especially its wholesale destruction of religious imagery across several media, might more immediate ideological factors have been in play?
First, thank you for your care to frame the possible connection on a speculative level. Next, all I've got for Byzantine history as early as this is Norwich, and in the absence of anything more substantive, I'm scared to even look at what he has to say about the subject. But that much of the same thing was carried on in western Europe during the Reformation, by militant Protestants. With that as more recent precedent, I have to wonder whether, in a similar vein, there might have been developments within Byzantine, or at least Christian thought (as broadly conceived), that may have led to this pitch of excess.
...In which context, your observations about how this came 'from the top,' apparently in both political and ecclesiastical circles, are no less resonant, and duly appreciated. ...The people on the ground are always likely to have better sense!

 

Nice coin! I especially like the brown and earthen patina.

Here's my best example, acquired in 1992 from Stephen Huston, San Francisco.

Byzantine Empire, 1068-1071 AD
AE Follis
Romanus IV Diogenes
Constantinople
Obverse: IC XC, Facing Christ Pantokrator
Reverse: MP ΘV, Facing Virgin Orans
Class G, BCV 1867
26.5 mm, 6 h.
11.1 grams

 

I have not acquired many coins as of late but this one I picked up this weekend and it arrived today. It fits perfectly in my collection and has the virgin so adds to this thread.

This EL Aspron Trachy issues by Isaac II in his first reign. Not perfect has a flan crack but still attractive.

Under the coin reform this coin was worth 1/3rd of a Hyperpyron. It is mixed metal gold ,silver and copper.

Most gold coins of this time were found in great condition because they were primarily used to pay the governments tax, the change from that tax was paid in trachea and tetartera, billion and copper coinage.


Isaac II SBCV- 2002 29.04mm 4.4gm

 

@BenSi, I have to chuckle at how jolly Isaak looks! Guess it had to be his first reign....

 

Yes BEFORE he was blinded.

 

...Except, if memory serves, that was only at the end of the second reign. (Somebody, Please, Tell me if I'm wrong! Too lazy to look it up.) It was more like, both reigns were an effectively total disaster. Especially for a maternal descendant of Alexios I, he was exactly the kind of thing the empire at large Really Didn't Need, just then.

 

No He was blinded after 1st reign 1195 AD.

All of the Emperors after Manuel Comnenus until the 1st fall were horrible ( Andronicus, Isaac II and Alexius III.), made the empire easy pickings for the Latin Crusaders.