Featured A few deniers tournois from the tresor de Puylaurens (Tarn)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by seth77, Mar 19, 2020.

  1. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    On Monday, my favorite Parisian numismatic shop closed its public office until further notice because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Starting with 2017 they began offering specimens from the Hoard of Puylaurens (Tarn) through their regular auctions and fixed price shop.

    puylaurens.jpg
    Puylaurens in southern France.

    This hoard contains 2688 Royal and feudal coins, dating from the 1100s to cca. 1315-1322 (when it seems that the accumulation was hidden and then lost), and is very interesting for many reasons, from which three are close to my main areas of study:

    1. the small currencies after the great monetary crisis and the debasement of the early 1300s under Philippe IV le Bel -- the "recovery" of the denier tournois (cca. 1307 and the 1310s) and the possible (probable?) "petits" (tournois and parisii) of the reigns of Louis X and Philippe V;

    2. the denier parisis after Philippe II Augustus, mainly the mintage under Louis VIII-IX, Philippe III and/or Louis X, Philippe V(?)

    3. the circulation in Occitania, at least by 1315/20 of the denier tournois from the Greek Frankokratia (especially from the Angevin Morea)


    pic1.jpg Four deniers tournois from the Puylaurens deposit -- Charles de France as Count of La Marche (1314-1322), non-distinct Achaean mintage post 1280 and two Royal deniers cca. 1245/50 to 1295.


    The coins here are at least indirectly related to the theme I have touched in Koinon last year (the tournois and the croisette-etoile privy marks) and Duplessy's "Les tresors monetaires medievaux..." where the Puylaurens deposit was, even if rather briefly, discussed is very helpful in clearing some questions regarding the tournois and its privy marks and has been paramount in peaking my interest in the Puylaurens deposit per se.

    Chronologically, these three cherry-picked specimens here start as early as the first issues of Philippe III, with the croisette mark being carried over from the deniers tournois of Saint Louis, go through the last mass series of deniers tournois of Philippe le Bel before the debasement, with an interesting new mark, the six ray etoile, and end in 1307-1310, after the stabilization of the denier tournois or perhaps as late as 1318, sometime close to the hiding date of the deposit, with the new fleuron cruciforme mark.


    bry_4605801.jpg
    Philippe III (1270-1285)
    AR18mm, 1.02g, 1270 to 1280
    + PhILIPVS ⏷ REX ˟
    + TVRONVS ⏷ CIVIS ˟
    cf. Duplessy 204, Ciani 167/191, Lafaurie 207.

    The specimen has l'O rond and the croisette is paired here with a triangular stop, a combination of marks that is not recorded by Duplessy, although it does show up from Occitania to as far north as Flanders.


    bry_4606571.jpg
    Philippe IV (1285-1314)
    AR20x18mm, 1.05g, cca. 1290-1295
    + PhILIPPVS * REX
    + TVR0NVS * CIVIS
    Duplessy 225A, not in Ciani, Lafaurie 230.

    The six rays etoile is a known and recorded mark, but it's a rather scarce one. This 1290 to 1295 type was thoroughly hoarded, especially after the double tournois began its descent into debasement, as per Gresham's law of "bad money" driving "good money" out of the market (and into hiding at Puylaurens). The hoarding of better title coinage sometimes ensures that even small series of a certain coinage have a chance of surviving the times.



    philippe4.jpg
    Philippe IV (1285-1314) or Philippe V (1316-1322)
    AR18mm 0.99g, cca. 1307-1310 or by Ordonnance de 1/03/1318
    + PHILIPPVS ˟ REX
    + TVRONVS [] CIVIS
    cf. Duplessy 223A or 223B (T annuleted instead of oncial as 223B, croisette/sautoir or fleuron cruciforme as privy mark, unrecorded by 323A), Ciani 248, not in Lafaurie.

    With the likely unrecorded privy mark, the annuleted T (in TVRONVS) and the triangle-ornamented L in (PHILIPPVS), Duplessy assigns this general type to Philippe IV, the late series 1307-1310, while Ciani assigns it to Philippe V -- perhaps minted with the gros tournois emission of March 1st 1318. Although Ciani is usually considered passe, there is a possibility that these distinct and scarce privy marks that have been routinely associated with the stabilization of the denier tournois in 1307 might in fact be from the distinct series of 1318 of Philippe V. Both ids are within the accepted period when it is considered that the deposit was hidden.



    The petty coinage of before cca. 1295/8-1300 and after 1307 is remarkably consistent as far as billon title is concerned, keeping the denier tournois at 299/1000 silver content. The obvious differences are the privy marks and the shape of some letters (a discussion that is way too complex and dry to be opened by someone like myself, who is still learning). But apart from these considerations which are rather obscure and technical, tresor de Puylaurens has a glimpse into the nature of small-scale commerce cca. late 13th century to early 14th century, and it offers it through this accumulation of petty currency that was reliable and prestigious enough to be both

    1. hoarded, while "bad money" was creeping into the market and

    2. supplemented by foreign-minted coinage of the same type when the local was under penury.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Excellent post.

    My parents in law used to live 12 miles away from Puylaurens, it's a pity they didn't discover the treasure themselves.... :(

    My only Philippe IV coin as a contribution

    [​IMG]
    Philippe IV "Le Bel" (1285-1314) - Gros tournois a l'O rond Atelier de Lille ? (2 petits points a droite du lis superieur du revers)
    + BNDICTV SIT NOME DNI NRI DEI IhV XPI dans le cercle exterieur, +PHILIPPVS REX dans le cercle interieur, croix au centre
    TVRONVS CIVIS + dans le cercle interieur, chatel tournois au centre, bordure de douze fleurs de lis a l'exterieur
    4.13 gr
    Ref : Ciani # 203

    Q
     
  4. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    If one looks at the map anywhere around there seems like a good place to live regardless if one finds the pot of medieval billon coins or not.
     
    Pellinore and Cucumbor like this.
  5. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    It sure is a good place to live !

    Q
     
  6. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Shop closed its online operations too today. Through natural disasters or terrorism, I've never seen Europe shut down like this before.
     
  7. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Great!

    Hoard coins are always interesting!

    Here's my English coin from a hoard discovered in France.

    It is from the Gisors (Eure) hoard [PDF] discovered in Normandy in 1970. The hoard was deposited sometime after 1241 and was found in a three-legged bronze pot in a mass weighing over 15 kg. Most of the coins were French but there were several hundred English short-cross pennies as well.

    England: silver penny of King John, ca. 1213-1215, from the Gisors hoard found in Normandy
    [​IMG]
     
  8. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Yes, tresor de Gisors is one of the most spectacular and interesting finds, here is a denier parisis of Robert II de Dreux that comes from that deposit, cf. M. Amandry:

    robert.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  9. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    A very interesting post. This is an area of numismatics and history about which I am woefully ignorant. But history for me tends to "come alive" when there are some actual coins attached to them and this kind of post helps shed a little light.

    A while back I got an itty-bitty coin of this era in a lot - I'll share it with my guesstimate attribution:

    France Obol Tournois Con (29).JPG

    France - Obol Tournois
    King Philip IV the Fair
    (c. 1290-1295 A.D.)
    Tours Mint

    + PhILIPPVS R(V)X, cross pattée / TVRONVS CIVIS, Châtel Tournois surmounted
    by a cross.
    Duplessy 226 - C.227 - L.231
    (0.40 grams / 15 mm)
     
  10. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Yours is an obole from the so-called common coinage of Philippe III and Philippe IV (1280-1290), so rather Duplessy 224, Lafaurie 229. The way to differentiate between this earlier series and the one in the first half of the 1290s is the O -- your coin has l'O rond -- and the N in TVRONVS that has a little annulet.
     
    Pellinore and Marsyas Mike like this.
  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Seth. I had a feeling I didn't have that attribution nailed down.

    The variations in lettering kind of reminds me of English hammered pennies where variations in the crown are key attribution points - those confuse me too!

    Corrections shall be made!
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page