A different Domitian / Minerva denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Sallent, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    I will admit to ignorantly purchasing this denarius of Domitian simply because I like the portrait and the reverse Minerva is not the typical one we all associate with Domitian ...but perhaps our resident expert @Orfew will be able to shed light on this coin far more than I ever will.

    89797q00.jpg
    Domitian
    AR denarius
    Minerva reverse
    89-90 CE

    I believe the Imp XVII commemorates a victory in late 88CE over the Dacians. For a pampered emperor, Domitian sure loved to exaggerate his military persona. Probably overcompensating for the real military prowess of his dad and brother.

    Compare it to my other denarius of his, with the typical Minerva holding a spear and shield in attack position....

    Domitian Minerva denarius.jpg
    Domitian
    AR denarius
    87 CE

    I couldn't help myself. I like Minerva, in fact I think Minerva is my second most represented deity in my collection right after Victoria. And while I like my heavily toned denarius of Domitian featuring the traditional reverse of Minerva, and a cute little owl at her feet, I can't pass up on Minerva holding a thunderbolt in one of her hands while in a restful pose.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Domitian 8.jpg
    DOMITIAN
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG - GERM P M TR P VIII Head laureate right
    REVERSE: IMP XVII COS XIIII CENS P P P Minerva fighting right with spear and shield atop capital of rostral column, owl at her feet
    Struck at Rome, 88-89 AD
    3.55g, 18.44mm
    RIC 657 (R )
     
  4. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    It's OK to have certain favorites, especially in this activity. :happy: On the other hand, if you name a daughter Minerva because of this obsession...well, that's a little over the top. :smuggrin::D:p;)
     
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  5. Svarog

    Svarog Well-Known Member

  6. Svarog

    Svarog Well-Known Member

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  7. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    @Sallent

    That is a very nice coin. It is RIC 657 and is marked (R) for rare. You are correct about the imperial acclamations. In 88 to 89 CE they were being awarded at a ferocious pace because of intense military activity. Your coin was struck sometime between the 14th of September 88 to September 13th of 89 CE. According to RIC we do know that IMP XVII was awarded before the 7th of November of 88 CE. According to the hoard evidence cited by RIC we can narrow this down to perhaps the 38 days between November 3rd and December 10 of 88 CE. This calculation greatly depends on the assumption of "regular output" and is based on the surviving coins in the hoards surveyed.

    Having said that, I can see why you were attracted to this coin. The portrait is great. I love the portraits on the Domitian denarii of 88 CE. They have an excellent style. This coin is also quite scarce. Good eye @Sallent and congratulations on a very nice purchase.

    Here is the British Museum example. Note the excellent style of the portrait. Still I like the charm of yours more than the British Museum example.

    Screen Shot 2019-06-24 at 12.27.01 PM.png
     
  8. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Great coin @Sallent! And a bonus it's a rare type. Your coin is actually RIC 659...still (R).

    There are 4 basic Minerva reverses under Domitian, not counting the winged Minerva which was only issued in his last year.


    Here is my RIC 657: Minerva standing right on capital of rostral column, with spear and shield; to right, owl.

    COSXIIII.jpg

    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P VIII
    Laureate head right

    IMP XVII COS XIIII CENS P P P
    Minerva standing right on capital of rostral column, with spear and shield; to right, owl

    Rome, Sept 14, 88 AD- Sept 13, 89 AD

    3.28g

    RIC 657 (R). RSC 247. A scarce reverse variant.

    Ex-Ancient Treasures (1999), Ex-ANE


    Minerva standing left with spear:

    COS_XI.jpg

    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P V
    Laureate head right

    IMP XI COS XI CENS P P P
    Minerva standing left with spear

    Rome 85 AD (6th issue)

    3.49g

    RIC 393 (R)

    Ex-Calgary Coin


    Minerva advancing with spear and shield:
    COS_XIII R2I.jpg
    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P VII
    Laureate head right

    IMP XV COS XIIII CENS P P P
    Minerva advancing right with spear and shield

    January 1- September 13, 88 AD

    Rome

    3.2g

    RIC 591 (R2)


    Minerva standing left with thunderbolt and spear;shield at her left side:
    COS_XVI.jpg

    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG FERM P M TR PXII
    Laureate head right

    IMP XXII COS XVI CENS PPP
    Minerva standing left with thunderbolt and spear;shield at her left side

    Rome September 14, 92 AD-September 13, 93 AD

    3.67g

    RIC 741 (C3)
     
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  9. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

  10. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    One of my favourite Minerva variants with the thunderbolt. RIC 568. Notice the obverse legend variant as well. Instead of GERM it reads GERMANIC.

    Domitian RIC 568.jpg
     
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  11. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    That looks like a simple side collection worth trying to assemble, one of each Minerva reverse type on Domitian denarii. I might have to look into it. I was considering doing the Gallienus zoo series, but this seems simpler and cooler to assemble. Though I doubt it will ever be 100% completed. That winged Minerva is probably a once in a lifetime type of coin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  12. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Oops, yes it is 659.

    btw that side collection sounds like a lot of fun.
     
  13. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Great idea!

    You could probably get all 4 types for a very reasonable price in high quality, especially since they are available across the entire reign. High grade common coins are plentiful. I actually just got a Minerva Victrix over the weekend. Can't wait for it to arrive!
     
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  14. Marsman

    Marsman Well-Known Member

    I am really surprised that there are only four different Minerva coins under Domitian. Good to know. I have two, so two to go :)

    I received this one a couple of days ago. Bought it cause of the nice portrait and of course the owl. Like the type. The coin has some small scratches, but also some fine details....
    My first silver Flavian coin in quite a while......

    Domitianus.png

    Domitian, denarius.
    Rome, 88 A.D.
    3.14 g. 19 mm.
    Obv. IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P VII, laureate head right.
    Rev. IMP XIIII COS XIIII CENS P P P, Minerva standing right on capital of rostral column, brandishing spear and shield; at her feet, owl standing right.
    RIC 108a.
     
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  15. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Great coin Marsman! Fantastic detail on that die. By the way the coin is RIC 576 (C2) in the new RIC
     
  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Nice D659!

    I acquired mine in 2013.

    D659_G.jpg

    Here's what I wrote about this rare issue in my Forvm gallery a few years ago, you may be correct about Dacian conflicts.

    Domitian did not take the consulship in 89, so this rare denarius is dated by TR P VIII between September 88 and September 89. The date can be further narrowed down by the 17th imperial acclamation. A military diploma dated 7 November, 88 records Domitian as IMP XVII, so this issue must have been struck briefly at the end of 88, perhaps just a month or so due to the rarity of the acclamation number on the denarii and the fact they were being awarded at a fairly rapid pace due to increased military activity along the Danube.
     
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  17. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Great portrait and sweet toning on that new denarius sallent!

    Here is a new edit of an old pic of my more modest domitian / minerva combo.


    domitian_zps76894717.JPG
     
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